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Aurum cost of skill extractors

Author
Varrinox
Red Sky Morning
Local Is Primary
#1 - 2016-02-09 13:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Varrinox
In my opinion this is far to high.

I understand CCP wanting to make some monetary gain from this but such a huge cost is well out of order in my opinion. Here is my thinking.

Character trading has a 2 plex transfer cost, for any amount of SP.
For example I recently sold a 31mil SP toon costing 2.3billion in plex transfer cost. [roughly]

To transfer 31million SP via extractors would cost 62 extractors equal to 62,000 aurum give or take some for the sales of 5% and 10% on bundles. 1 plex gives 3500 aurum.
17.7 PLEX required to transfer that example alts SP via extractors. Costing nearly 20billion isk.

Nearly a tenfold increase in exchange of SP from player to play [not character to character]
I fully appreciate that this SP is going from 1 character to a character of your choice in to a skill of your choice.
But such a vast increase in price seems completely unjustified to me.

The numbers I have quoted here are indeed based upon 1 unscientific poll of my own experience but I suspect around 30mil is a reasonable average for traded characters. Ones with more SP make this an even bigger increase in cost per SP and vice versa less SP toons decrease the cost per SP.

In conclusion
CCP you introduced and billed this as a feature to allow players to exchange SP for a variety of reasons from helping new pilots catch up to FCs getting pilots in to new doctrine among others. New pilots realistically will not be able to afford this cost unless they throw real life cash at Eve, nor will many FCs be willing to burden such a cost just to change doctrines. In concept this is a great idea which I had big hopes for but fact you have put such a huge profit margin for yourselves has ruined it for all but the people with hundreds of billions in their wallet who just want to throw more SP on to their alts so they can multibox more.

TLDR - CCPlease stop making "features" for players that just fatten your wallet via plex prices increasing.
Salt confirmed.
Edit - If this is wrong forum for this please redirect me to the correct place for the feedback on this feature as after looking it was not obvious.

PS. - The idea I have is make the cost of extractors more like 100-250 aurum each not 1000
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2016-02-09 13:59:48 UTC
That conclusion is the entire point of skins, apparel and the SP trading: More money for CCP without any added gameplay benefits. And it is conditioning players to accept the Play With Your Credit Card mentality instead of play your time and enthusiasm. Sadly, people in my alliance have already asked to consider donating SP to younger players to get them up to standards.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Aluanna
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-02-09 18:06:52 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
That conclusion is the entire point of skins, apparel and the SP trading: More money for CCP without any added gameplay benefits. And it is conditioning players to accept the Play With Your Credit Card mentality instead of play your time and enthusiasm. Sadly, people in my alliance have already asked to consider donating SP to younger players to get them up to standards.


If players in your alliance aren't up to standards, one might wonder why they are in the alliance? If you accept new recruits in order to train them, surely your standards should include lower SP toons? :)

On topic: I dunno tbh, I'm on the fence about the whole thing, while I like the idea of essentially respeccing SP I wasted in skills I no longer use, paying for enough extractors to respec adds up to a hefty sum VERY quickly.

2.5 Euro per extractor may not sound like a lot.. but neither is 500k SP.. If you trained for a month you'd been 4 extractors instantly, 5 if you account for the SP loss of injecting.

suddenly that 2.5 Euro is adding up to ten bucks. on top of the sub fee.

CCP, theres a reason they are called MICROtransactions.
and yes, this statement applies to pretty much the entire gaming industry today..
Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2016-02-09 18:37:54 UTC
Roll

And the incessant whining about the cost of skill extractors gets added to the incessant whining about the price of plex.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2016-02-09 18:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Aluanna wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
That conclusion is the entire point of skins, apparel and the SP trading: More money for CCP without any added gameplay benefits. And it is conditioning players to accept the Play With Your Credit Card mentality instead of play your time and enthusiasm. Sadly, people in my alliance have already asked to consider donating SP to younger players to get them up to standards.


If players in your alliance aren't up to standards, one might wonder why they are in the alliance? If you accept new recruits in order to train them, surely your standards should include lower SP toons? :)

Giving new players a chance to get their hands dirty in Null sec. It's not like we do not have them not covered (every doctrine we use has new player friendly ships), but some do not like to fly Mauluses or Vigils in every fleet (despite the fact that these ships are important to make Tengus or Hurricanes hit harder or disrupt the opponent's logistics), they insist on either bringing underskilled DPS or logi ships or not participate at all. But thanks to skill injectors, this is a thing of the past soon. Now I can demand from them to go to Jita, buy SP and then get their preferred ships properly trained. Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#6 - 2016-02-09 18:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
Want to hear another side of this story?

I've been selling basic characters for research, scanning, mining, freighters, traders, covert ops cynos, tengus, basic carriers, ages ago noctis characters.

Guess what.
At 800 aur per 500k SP (extractor) and with the reduced price of injectors because of over-supply it will be cheaper to buy SP than it is to transfer a character with less than about 8-9m SP (if you account for training costs past the first 1.7 month).

So why don't you stop moaning about how it's expensive because it is not, it is too damn cheap and for low SP characters this will eventually be as cheap as training certs for secondary characters.

And you better believe I know damn well what I'm talking about.

I've been selling stuff long before I started using Arya to post on forums, you can check my history if you think I'm making things up.

TL&DR: people who are complaining about cost of extractors never had macro/microeconomics.
This stuff will bite CCP in the ass super hard when the effects of market canibalism show up.

--edit--
What I'm saying is that game would be better off without this or that there should at least be a limit to how much SP you can inject per month/year.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Rasputin Demonde
Pagan Products
#7 - 2016-02-09 19:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rasputin Demonde
I agree . This is just another end around 'pay to win' scheme by CCP . We have already paid for our skill points once . At the very least CCP should have offered , once a year SP re-allotment , to fix skilling mess ups . At a fixed amount .
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-02-09 20:04:46 UTC
I completely agree with the OP, in fact, I would go farther and saying that selling extractors for money is pay to win.

I went to the market today to try to find the BPO that makes skill extractors and could not find it. How are skill extractors made? I wondered. Are they data site drops? Then after some more web searching I find out that they are not drops and are not made, they are sold for cash by the game company. It is a pay-to-win system.

I am extremely upset about this. After playing the game for many years, it is very upsetting to see the company inventing these pay-to-win schemes to try to boost revenue instead of trying to attract legitimate subscribers through improved gameplay.

Pay to win is exploitative and yields temporary benefits at best. By doing this the company is alienating its player base.

Runes of Magic just blew up and failed last year after players got tired of their pay-to-win model.

This is a very very bad thing for EVE.
Kuetlzelcoatl
#9 - 2016-02-09 20:09:09 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
....Sadly, people in my alliance have already asked to consider donating SP to younger players to get them up to standards.



That was mentioned as a possible drawback to trading SP, but most just said that was a silly assumption and we should look for better Corps....
The problem is that it is simply human nature, which many will never understand. CCP does!

It is sad to see a game developer take advantage of such things for apparently profit reasons.
Kuetlzelcoatl
#10 - 2016-02-09 20:10:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuetlzelcoatl
Droidster wrote:
I completely agree with the OP, in fact, I would go farther and saying that selling extractors for money is pay to win....


....This is a very very bad thing for EVE.


Yup, all good points.

Being silly rich IRL now gives you a complete advantage in Eve Online.

Pay to win... Live on TQ.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2016-02-09 22:10:34 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Want to hear another side of this story?

I've been selling basic characters for research, scanning, mining, freighters, traders, covert ops cynos, tengus, basic carriers, ages ago noctis characters.

Guess what.
At 800 aur per 500k SP (extractor) and with the reduced price of injectors because of over-supply it will be cheaper to buy SP than it is to transfer a character with less than about 8-9m SP (if you account for training costs past the first 1.7 month).

So why don't you stop meaning about how it's expensive because it is not, it is too damn cheap and for low SP characters this will eventually be as cheap as training certs for secondary characters.

And you better believe I know damn well what I'm talking about.

I've been selling stuff long before I started using Arya to post on forums, you can check my history if you think I'm making things up.

TL&DR: people who are complaining about cost of extractors never had macro/microeconomics.
This stuff will bite CCP in the ass super hard when the effects of market canibalism show up.

--edit--
What I'm saying is that game would be better off without this or that there should at least be a limit to how much SP you can inject per month/year.


800 ISK/SP is low, you are not factoring in all the costs and you are also not factoring in any sort of mark up. Those number represent the costs of SP, not the final market price.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Grimosa Thellere
Myka Inc.
#12 - 2016-02-09 22:16:22 UTC
we can discuss, but CCP isn't interested in our opinion
Civire Desire
Systems High Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#13 - 2016-02-09 23:29:00 UTC
OOOH!! OOOH!! OOOH!! Now that we has Gold Skill Points, when can we buy Gold Ammo??
(/endsarcasm)
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-02-10 17:14:56 UTC
Varrinox wrote:
In my opinion this is far to high.

I understand CCP wanting to make some monetary gain from this but such a huge cost is well out of order in my opinion.

Setting the cost ten times as high doesn't give CCP ten times the profit. Setting it too high could even cost them profit due to the people who choose not to use the service. I think that's the key aspect here, and I think this is a feature that players should be discouraged to use.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#15 - 2016-02-10 17:45:50 UTC
Given that there really isn't any variable cost to CCP for extractors, the price could only be said to be "too high" if reducing the price by a given percentage would result in a proportionally larger increase in sales, such that the total revenue generated were higher at the lower price point.

That very well may be the case eventually, but for launch day/week? Doubtful.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#16 - 2016-02-10 20:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
Teckos Pech wrote:


800 ISK/SP is low, you are not factoring in all the costs and you are also not factoring in any sort of mark up. Those number represent the costs of SP, not the final market price.

Aur not isk, and the markup is only high now, a lot of people want to play for free even if that means they can't train skills, this will result in training and selling SP to offset plexing costs and when the demand for injectors goes down the supply will keep going up driving the prices of injectors close to cost of extractors.

This is not a far fetched speculation at all even at 50% markup over the extractor this is still a very good substitute for training certs and straight better for low SP characters.

This will not be in full display for at least a few months so you can chill your beans and call me an idiot for now.
In 8 months or so if the extractor aur prices remain the same the total cost of 500k SP will be 1100 and in a year it might even go under 1000.

I think it is far more appropriate to put an AUR price tag equivalent on this stuff because it is DIRECTLY related to PLEX price and AUR has a constant exchange index whereas ISK does not.

Current price of SP injector is at around 1630 AUR, the limit to how low that can go is 800 AUR which it will never reach obviously, but it can get pretty damn close. To get your isk equivalent calculate the exchange by dividing PLEX price with 3500 (the amount of AUR you get per PLEX)

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-02-10 20:56:16 UTC
@Pay2Win whiners:

CCP is a business. Businesses are in this to make money. Players asked for this. CCP saw a business opportunity. CCP delivered. Don't like it. Don't use it. I'm not using it.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2016-02-11 06:06:47 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
@Pay2Win whiners:

CCP is a business. Businesses are in this to make money. Players asked for this. CCP saw a business opportunity. CCP delivered. Don't like it. Don't use it. I'm not using it.

Can I have some of your excess SP? I'll even pay for the extractors... Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-02-11 14:41:49 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
@Pay2Win whiners:

CCP is a business. Businesses are in this to make money. Players asked for this. CCP saw a business opportunity. CCP delivered. Don't like it. Don't use it. I'm not using it.

Can I have some of your excess SP? I'll even pay for the extractors... Lol


I don't have excess SP. I actually went through and looked to see what I could do without, and then thought, "Chances are, once I get rid of it; CCP will make it so it is useful again."
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-02-11 16:02:27 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
@Pay2Win whiners:

CCP is a business. Businesses are in this to make money. Players asked for this. CCP saw a business opportunity. CCP delivered. Don't like it. Don't use it. I'm not using it.

Can I have some of your excess SP? I'll even pay for the extractors... Lol


I don't have excess SP. I actually went through and looked to see what I could do without, and then thought, "Chances are, once I get rid of it; CCP will make it so it is useful again."


I'm thinking of removing my mining skills just to test this...
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