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POS Visible from Station

Author
Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-02-08 08:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bishop Aidartier
I've seen this mentioned, but nothing to say what will be done about it, if anything.

Some POS are visible from stations since the grid size changes, so anyone at the station can see the POS and its arrays without actually going there. I think this puts the owners of the POS at a serious disadvantage?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2016-02-08 09:04:59 UTC
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
I've seen this mentioned, but nothing to say what will be done about it, if anything.

Some POS are visible from stations since the grid size changes, so anyone at the station can see the POS and its arrays without actually going there. I think this puts the owners of the POS at a serious disadvantage?

How so? It's not really any different than before, and it was never really any problem to just go and look anyway.
Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-02-08 09:11:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
I've seen this mentioned, but nothing to say what will be done about it, if anything.

Some POS are visible from stations since the grid size changes, so anyone at the station can see the POS and its arrays without actually going there. I think this puts the owners of the POS at a serious disadvantage?

How so? It's not really any different than before, and it was never really any problem to just go and look anyway.


If someone owns a POS on one of these moons and it is only lightly defended, it is more obvious now than it would have been before, which puts them at a disadvantage over the owners of hidden POS.

Before the grid changes you would have actually had to scout the POS with intention, now it is visible from the station and people who normally wouldn't of seen this POS may be motivated to attack it if they see it is lightly defended.
Inotee Tahr
Feed Team 6
#4 - 2016-02-08 09:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Inotee Tahr
I've yet to see stations in wormhole space, except for Thera. You might want to consider moving out in j-space? Note that Citadels might be coming soon and considered stations, but i guess you refer to fixed stations and not player constructed?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2016-02-08 09:14:29 UTC
the only issue i have had was getting bitten in the arse by a pos while attempting to dock in a station
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2016-02-08 09:21:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
If someone owns a POS on one of these moons and it is only lightly defended, it is more obvious now than it would have been before, which puts them at a disadvantage over the owners of hidden POS.
It's not really more obvious.
Before, you had to take an interest in the POS, pick the right tab on your overview, press a button and check the list.
Now, you have to take an interest in the POS, pick the right tab on your overview, and check the list.

A button press more or less does not constitute a “serious disadvantage” and it doesn't particularly make anything more or less obvious. It's still a matter of “I want to know about the POSes in this system, so let's warp to someplace near* them and check them out.”

* For very large values of “near”.

Quote:
Before the grid changes you would have actually had to scout the POS with intention
So, much the same as now, then. If you have no intent of scouting the POS, it's just pointless noise that is best filtered out. Anyone who'd be motivated to attack you would know that your POS is lightly defended anyway because it was always one of the most trivial things to find out.

People who are looking for weak POSes won't be affected in the slightest since it makes no difference to them where the POS is.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#7 - 2016-02-08 09:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
If the moon is worth anything, then people will look at it whether or not it's on grid with a station.

It's not the ability to see a POS that means much, but whether that bit of space is worth taking.
Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-02-08 09:32:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
If someone owns a POS on one of these moons and it is only lightly defended, it is more obvious now than it would have been before, which puts them at a disadvantage over the owners of hidden POS.
It's not really more obvious.
Before, you had to take an interest in the POS, pick the right tab on your overview, press a button and check the list.
Now, you have to take an interest in the POS, pick the right tab on your overview, and check the list.

A button press more or less does not constitute a “serious disadvantage” and it doesn't particularly make anything more or less obvious. It's still a matter of “I want to know about the POSes in this system, so let's warp to someplace near* them and check them out.”

* For very large values of “near”.

Quote:
Before the grid changes you would have actually had to scout the POS with intention
So, much the same as now, then. If you have no intent of scouting the POS, it's just pointless noise that is best filtered out. Anyone who'd be motivated to attack you would know that your POS is lightly defended anyway because it was always one of the most trivial things to find out.

People who are looking for weak POSes won't be affected in the slightest since it makes no difference to them where the POS is.


You don't have to have it added to overview to see it, that's the problem. You can simply look up, and there it is, on grid with you. This is a very general example of how it is a problem, there's much more than that.

Basically these moons have no cover, they are exposed to anyone using these stations. You cannot say that this is not a disadvantage.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2016-02-08 09:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
You don't have to have it added to overview to see it, that's the problem. You can simply look up, and there it is, on grid with you.
…and if you don't have the filters turned on, chance are you won't see the pixels, much less decide that this grey pixel is an AC battery and that grey pixel is a neut battery. And guess what, you could do the exact same thing before as well, so no change.

If you actually wanted to know what a POS is packing, you still have to actively scout them (which is mosts sensibly done by turning the proper filters on), which is no different than how it has always been.

Quote:
Basically these moons have no cover, they are exposed to anyone using these stations. You cannot say that this is not a disadvantage.

No moons have cover. They're moons, not Death Stars. They're all exposed to anyone who warps to them. There is no special disadvantage to being near something else you can warp to because… well… that applies to all of them. People are not going to attack a POS because it's weak and they spotted it near a station; they're going to attack it because they're looking for weak POSes, period. The location is entirely coincidental.

Basically, your complaint is that you can now warp near a POS and see it. Guess what? There is no “now” in that — it was always possible.
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-02-08 13:43:39 UTC
Look at it like this. If someone intends to stomp your POS, and has the wherewithal to do it, they're going to do it. Scouting for it, or seeing it from a station makes no difference whatever even in significant time required for execution. If you can't defend the onslaught, then you can't defend the onslaught and no "can't see it from the station" will save you there, either.

If it's some gank operation looking for undefended POSs, and your POSs is undefended, than sure, they'll see it from the station as it were, and go for the gank. Again, seeing it from the station has no significance here since they'd scout you out anyway. That's how they normally operate. Just seeing your POS isn't going to set off a light bulb that isn't already lit...so to speak.

So, if you're trying to say, "I'm too cheap to defend my POS," or, "I'm so broke I can't defend my POS," either way it wasn't a good idea for you to have a POS, so who cares if you get ganked 'cause seeing it causes the inevitable to happen sooner? Furthermore, if this is how you run your POS, you've just (by posting this rather dubious complaint) told the gankers who to put on their to-do list.

I'd say that's lose/lose/lose. I do hope it's not par for your course.

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-02-08 15:23:52 UTC
If someone wants your pos someone will take it, nobody really has any issues dropping a load of dreads on a pos these days

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#12 - 2016-02-08 15:59:40 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
If someone wants your pos someone will take it, nobody really has any issues dropping a load of dreads on a pos these days


There's a POS right near the station we have our corp in ATM. I just says "Anchored" and I can just click on it to see what's there. It's in a relatively high security system (which I thought you weren't allowed to have player stations in?) So, being a player asset in HiSec, it's fairly safe from anyone that cares about their security status, however, as Lan Wang points out, if they don't care... into reinforced it goes.

Corp offices are so cheap in low traffic systems, there are so many systems to choose from in fairly tight clusters, not sure what the advantage of a POS is. Maybe you don't fight over lab/research time? I think if I was really worried about having a ton of corp assets exposed, I'd just use standard corp offices and maybe station containers.

If you're large enough, you can just wait and build a citadel.. or two... or three! Big smile
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2016-02-08 16:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ibutho Inkosi wrote:
If it's some gank operation looking for undefended POSs, and your POSs is undefended, than sure, they'll see it from the station as it were, and go for the gank. Again, seeing it from the station has no significance here since they'd scout you out anyway. That's how they normally operate. Just seeing your POS isn't going to set off a light bulb that isn't already lit...so to speak.

Very well put. 👏
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#14 - 2016-02-08 16:24:51 UTC
Does appearing on the overview in high-traffic locations increase the likelihood that a particular POS will get attacked? I dunno. Maybe. If it bothers you that much ... find a new moon. But once the new structures are released, you wont even have to anchor at a moon. Either way, the solution is going to be to move off grid.
Daerrol
The Inf3cted
#15 - 2016-02-08 17:52:44 UTC
You do know D-scan picked up POS modules before and anyone undocking and D-scanning, the like most common thing to do ever, has alraedy D-scanned your near-by POS. Anyawys in a year they'll all be gone.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#16 - 2016-02-08 18:31:02 UTC
Who cares?

your pos has been exposed for months, you are just NOW commenting? which means if no one else made a move on you, then no one gives a flying **** about your pos.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-02-08 18:35:57 UTC
OP has just revealed he has no defence on his pos and op thinks its ccps fault for letting everyone see it, announces it all on the game forums gg topkek

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Evasive Shadow Assassin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2016-02-08 18:44:21 UTC
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
I've seen this mentioned, but nothing to say what will be done about it, if anything.

Some POS are visible from stations since the grid size changes, so anyone at the station can see the POS and its arrays without actually going there. I think this puts the owners of the POS at a serious disadvantage?

How so? It's not really any different than before, and it was never really any problem to just go and look anyway.


If someone owns a POS on one of these moons and it is only lightly defended, it is more obvious now than it would have been before, which puts them at a disadvantage over the owners of hidden POS.

Before the grid changes you would have actually had to scout the POS with intention, now it is visible from the station and people who normally wouldn't of seen this POS may be motivated to attack it if they see it is lightly defended.


So dont put lightly defended pos on planets u want to hold?
Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-02-09 00:25:32 UTC
I do not have a POS currently, but was looking around and noticed that some of the moons available were ones that can be seen from stations, which is something that would put me at a disadvantage over other people in the area.

Also, in case you did not know, POS anchor on moons, not planets. I think alot of people commenting here have no idea what they are actually talking about.

I did not come here to discuss whether or not this would put someone at a disadvantage, because I actually use POS and know that this is something that will.

I came here to see if it has been mentioned and whether or not something would be done to put them on the same level playing field as the other moons and POS in the game.
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#20 - 2016-02-09 00:45:36 UTC
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
I do not have a POS currently, but was looking around and noticed that some of the moons available were ones that can be seen from stations, which is something that would put me at a disadvantage over other people in the area.

Also, in case you did not know, POS anchor on moons, not planets. I think alot of people commenting here have no idea what they are actually talking about.

I did not come here to discuss whether or not this would put someone at a disadvantage, because I actually use POS and know that this is something that will.

I came here to see if it has been mentioned and whether or not something would be done to put them on the same level playing field as the other moons and POS in the game.



It was mention in the discussion taking about the implementation of the new larger grid.

It seemed to be seen more as a novelty than an issue, and could be advantageous as well in certain circumstances.
Not everyone cares if their POS can be seen by players at stations or passing though gates.

Those who do can choose to put their POS elsewhere.

Kind of adds varied terrain to the game to be honest.
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