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Adjust/remove Advanced Spaceship Command skill
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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2016-02-01 20:30:07 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:


So you are saying a 5% increase at ASC 1, 10% increase at ASC 2, 15% increase at ASC 3, etc; provides no bonus?

As a cap pilot, I do not understand why you wouldn't want this skill at 5.


You want it at V but under the new plan, training it gives nothing at all until you reach V.

Train to I > No bonus because you can't fly any affected ships
Train to II > No affected ships can be flown
Train to III > Same as above
Train to IV > Why am I training this again?
Train to V > OMG, my ship is 25% more agile than nothing because I just finally became able to train for one.

AWU for example is the "SP wall" for marauder but you get benefit from every rank as soon as you reach rank I because it affect other things. ASC does not ahve that. That is the reason I think it's not perfectly designed.

It also is NOT all that important tho since at least it's not a dead-end skill with no effect at all on your future ship.
Mandar Amelana
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2016-02-01 20:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mandar Amelana
Heiluri wrote:

Do we really want to give all those ships 25% agility bonus though?(Which they would get since that skill would be required to fly them)


AF's would be the only one I'd be ok with (even then that's only a small portion of the T2 frigs , but I can't imagine what fighting a bunch of 25% agi boosted T3 cruisers would be like, and how it might affect the large fleet combat meta.

I do like the original concept's goal to make Lv's I-IV useful, but that proposed fix would require serious balancing. Not worth it.

In all honesty, I get the principle of being frustrated that Lv's I-IV are basically useless until you finish V, but why not make it so that racial freighter only needs Lv. III and Jump Freighter skill requires Lv. V? That seems to the be the easier fix, right?
Admiral Icarus Raidriar
Doomheim
#43 - 2016-02-02 17:33:56 UTC
Personally, I find +5% Agility fairly useful.

Don't explain your philosophy. Embody it.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#44 - 2016-02-02 21:07:46 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:


So you are saying a 5% increase at ASC 1, 10% increase at ASC 2, 15% increase at ASC 3, etc; provides no bonus?

As a cap pilot, I do not understand why you wouldn't want this skill at 5.


You want it at V but under the new plan, training it gives nothing at all until you reach V.

Train to I > No bonus because you can't fly any affected ships
Train to II > No affected ships can be flown
Train to III > Same as above
Train to IV > Why am I training this again?
Train to V > OMG, my ship is 25% more agile than nothing because I just finally became able to train for one.

AWU for example is the "SP wall" for marauder but you get benefit from every rank as soon as you reach rank I because it affect other things. ASC does not ahve that. That is the reason I think it's not perfectly designed.

It also is NOT all that important tho since at least it's not a dead-end skill with no effect at all on your future ship.


Yeah, but I could have sworn in the past, the skill train for a freighter didn't need ASC at 5. It just needed it at 1.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#45 - 2016-02-02 21:24:43 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
You think 5% agility per level provides nothing? What are you smoking?


Except, 100% of the ships to which it provides that benefit require the skill at level 5. If they built the agility bonus into the hulls and still required the skill at 5 without it actually doing anything, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.


There are no actual decisions around the skill: Either you train it to 5 for cap ships, or you don't train it at all. If you have the skill at 4, it provides a 20% bonus that you can't actually use on anything, which is generally bad design.

OP has a valid point. I don't know that removing the skill is necessarily the correct remediation, but there's certainly cause to fix the binary nature of the current state of the skill.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2016-02-03 20:40:49 UTC
That's a good point that the bonus is not used until level 5, advanced spaceship command should be just be required at one for a normal cap ship, and 5 for a titan.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#47 - 2016-02-03 20:50:33 UTC
Freighters used to require ASC 1 only. It was changed when CCP made it more easy for people to train for the capital ships. It was changed because it was determined that it would make the train time for a freighter too quick and too easy.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#48 - 2016-02-03 21:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Estella Osoka wrote:
Freighters used to require ASC 1 only. It was changed when CCP made it more easy for people to train for the capital ships. It was changed because it was determined that it would make the train time for a freighter too quick and too easy.


This is why things are the way they are.

As for what we could do with the skill... Just make it also affects Battleships. Then nerf Battleships agility by 10%.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-02-04 03:22:12 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Freighters used to require ASC 1 only. It was changed when CCP made it more easy for people to train for the capital ships. It was changed because it was determined that it would make the train time for a freighter too quick and too easy.


This is why things are the way they are.

As for what we could do with the skill... Just make it also affects Battleships. Then nerf Battleships agility by 10%.
What did battleships ever do to you?
Michael Weaver
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2016-02-08 10:02:19 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
As for what we could do with the skill... Just make it also affects Battleships. Then nerf Battleships agility by 10%.


Why would you tie a cap-ship skill to one sub-cap hull type? That would create even bigger mess than it is now
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2016-02-08 14:27:15 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Freighters used to require ASC 1 only. It was changed when CCP made it more easy for people to train for the capital ships. It was changed because it was determined that it would make the train time for a freighter too quick and too easy.


This is why things are the way they are.

As for what we could do with the skill... Just make it also affects Battleships. Then nerf Battleships agility by 10%.
What did battleships ever do to you?


That's a buff to battleship if you train the skill...
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Snuffed Out
#52 - 2016-02-08 15:26:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:


So you are saying a 5% increase at ASC 1, 10% increase at ASC 2, 15% increase at ASC 3, etc; provides no bonus?

As a cap pilot, I do not understand why you wouldn't want this skill at 5.


You want it at V but under the new plan, training it gives nothing at all until you reach V.

Train to I > No bonus because you can't fly any affected ships
Train to II > No affected ships can be flown
Train to III > Same as above
Train to IV > Why am I training this again?
Train to V > OMG, my ship is 25% more agile than nothing because I just finally became able to train for one.

AWU for example is the "SP wall" for marauder but you get benefit from every rank as soon as you reach rank I because it affect other things. ASC does not ahve that. That is the reason I think it's not perfectly designed.

It also is NOT all that important tho since at least it's not a dead-end skill with no effect at all on your future ship.


The O P is right and this post explains it well. After the skill preqreq change of Freighters needing ASC 5, the skill was made pointless.
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