These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

radar continuous dscan system
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Renfus
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#1 - 2016-02-08 08:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Renfus
Just like in real life .
Radar continuously scans..
When new contacts appear, it pings.. it even tells you the range and direction on a map..
I think it would be cool to implement a radar that continuously scans in conjunction with your dscan.
Instead of manually clicking a button every second..
After all, this is a futuristic game and we are piloting space ships..
I've watched enough star trek to know they don't have a guy on the bridge clicking a button every second looking for contacts..haha

((( Alliance Creation ))) Corp Update Service available ( 10,600 Member limit ). ++ Free with Alliance Creation ++ Contact me In-Game.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-02-08 09:12:06 UTC
good thing game balance outweighs realism

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cristl
#3 - 2016-02-08 09:26:54 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
good thing game balance outweighs realism

Both trite and inappropriate. It is currently both too safe (we can ping every second) and simultaneously too annoying (and kills logitech mice).

It would be far better if you could only ping once every, say, 15 seconds, but could set it to auto-repeat. So less frequent updates, but also less frequent mouse replacement.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-02-08 09:49:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
good thing game balance outweighs realism



/sign

-1 for the idea
Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2016-02-08 10:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Cristl wrote:
(and kills logitech mice).
....but also less frequent mouse replacement.

How does a keyboard shortcut cause frequent mouse replacement? Doesn't make sense.

If you're still clicking the scan button, you're doing it wrong.
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2016-02-08 10:21:13 UTC
Renfus wrote:
Just like in real life .
Radar continuously scans..
When new contacts appear, it pings.. it even tells you the range and direction on a map..
I think it would be cool to implement a radar that continuously scans in conjunction with your dscan.
Instead of manually clicking a button every second..
After all, this is a futuristic game and we are piloting space ships..
I've watched enough star trek to know they don't have a guy on the bridge clicking a button every second looking for contacts..haha

Just like in real life?
Continuous active radar sweeps give away your position. Active sonar pings give away your position. Using d-scan in EvE does not give away your position.

I will support continuous active d-scan if, and only if, using it provides a warp in beacon available on the overview.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#7 - 2016-02-08 12:44:58 UTC
I'd be OK w/ a continuous dscan option. Things entering your dscan range automatically popping up after a short delay (it is a sweep thing and the range is over 14 AU, so 30 second delay would be adequate). The balancing point for turning on continuous dscan option would be your continuously radiating ship would be a warpable object in space. If you have the 'radiating ship' box checked in your overview settings you would see 'Radiating Cruiser' or whatever hull type is using the continuous dscan option. Radiating ships would appear just like cyno ships currently appear. There would have to be range limits on proximity to gates/pos/stations for personnel safety reasons. You wouldn't want all that transmitted radiation making the children sick. 250km from stations, gates and POS would be a reasonable safe minimum distance.

This idea (if radiating creates a warpable beacon) would generate interesting conflict options.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#8 - 2016-02-08 12:47:41 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Renfus wrote:
Just like in real life .
Radar continuously scans..
When new contacts appear, it pings.. it even tells you the range and direction on a map..
I think it would be cool to implement a radar that continuously scans in conjunction with your dscan.
Instead of manually clicking a button every second..
After all, this is a futuristic game and we are piloting space ships..
I've watched enough star trek to know they don't have a guy on the bridge clicking a button every second looking for contacts..haha

Just like in real life?
Continuous active radar sweeps give away your position. Active sonar pings give away your position. Using d-scan in EvE does not give away your position.

I will support continuous active d-scan if, and only if, using it provides a warp in beacon available on the overview.




Agreed, but it would be too dangerous to transmit continuously near objects where people normally are. 250km minimum safe distance from any station, POS or star gate would need to be included in its implementation.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#9 - 2016-02-08 17:27:57 UTC
I smell a stealthy pls buff my pixel recording (illegal? but undetectable) software.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-02-08 18:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Renfus wrote:
Just like in real life .
Radar continuously scans..
When new contacts appear, it pings.. it even tells you the range and direction on a map..
I think it would be cool to implement a radar that continuously scans in conjunction with your dscan.
Instead of manually clicking a button every second..
After all, this is a futuristic game and we are piloting space ships..
I've watched enough star trek to know they don't have a guy on the bridge clicking a button every second looking for contacts..haha

Just like in real life?
Continuous active radar sweeps give away your position. Active sonar pings give away your position. Using d-scan in EvE does not give away your position.

I will support continuous active d-scan if, and only if, using it provides a warp in beacon available on the overview.



A warp-in beacon would be too precise, if we're really going to analogize to real-world equivalents. Passively detecting an active sonar ping can give you a heading and a notion of the distance, but it is far from, "Oh, here he is!" if you only have a single detector. A warp-in would really only make sense with 2+ (And i have to think it would really be at least 4, not unlike probes, although the whole concept of trilateration obviously gets fucky for a signal that is demonstrably FTL) independent detectors working in concert (and from significantly different locations). Otherwise, you should really only get, "Well, there's a radiator off that-a-wayish...." as with cosmic signatures.

Interesting to note, however, that the effective range for an active radiator is effectively halved by the need for a return trip, while a passive detector can hear the signal twice as far out.

All that aside, D-scan is a pretty poorly designed mechanic, and I wouldn't be the least bit opposed to a well considered redesign that involves less button-mashing and more counter-play.

Being able to passively detect other people's D-scans would have some pretty interesting implications with cloaked ships and combat recons.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#11 - 2016-02-08 18:57:41 UTC
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-02-08 18:59:42 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.


I thought you didn't like space-magic? Blink

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#13 - 2016-02-08 18:59:48 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Renfus wrote:
Just like in real life .
Radar continuously scans..
When new contacts appear, it pings.. it even tells you the range and direction on a map..
I think it would be cool to implement a radar that continuously scans in conjunction with your dscan.
Instead of manually clicking a button every second..
After all, this is a futuristic game and we are piloting space ships..
I've watched enough star trek to know they don't have a guy on the bridge clicking a button every second looking for contacts..haha

Just like in real life?
Continuous active radar sweeps give away your position. Active sonar pings give away your position. Using d-scan in EvE does not give away your position.

I will support continuous active d-scan if, and only if, using it provides a warp in beacon available on the overview.



A warp-in beacon would be too precise, if we're really going to analogize to real-world equivalents. Passively detecting an active sonar ping can give you a heading and a notion of the distance, but it is far from, "Oh, here he is!" if you only have a single detector. A warp-in would really only make sense with 2+ (And i have to think it would really be at least 4, not unlike probes, although the whole concept of trilateration obviously gets fucky for a signal that is demonstrably FTL) independent detectors working in concert (and from significantly different locations). Otherwise, you should really only get, "Well, there's a radiator off that-a-wayish...." as with cosmic signatures.

Interesting to note, however, that the effective range for an active radiator is effectively halved by the need for a return trip, while a passive detector can hear the signal twice as far out.

All that aside, D-scan is a pretty poorly designed mechanic, and I wouldn't be the least bit opposed to a well considered redesign that involves less button-mashing and more counter-play.

Being able to passively detect other people's D-scans would have some pretty interesting implications with cloaked ships and combat recons.



Being a good scout w/ good dscan skills takes just that - skills. It needs to stay that way, so that players that are actually good at eve have something to do.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2016-02-08 19:02:28 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.


I thought you didn't like space-magic? Blink



cyno beacons aren't magic, so why would an active radar beacon be magic? You're just jealous that I'm fabulous and you're not.


PROTIP- (for those writing a documentary on my eve character) I dislike botting more than space magic and less than Fozzie.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-02-08 19:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Serendipity Lost wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.


I thought you didn't like space-magic? Blink



cyno beacons aren't magic, so why would an active radar beacon be magic? You're just jealous that I'm fabulous and you're not.



Cyno beacons, being beacons, would presumably function like any other beacon (such as an EPIRB ).

I didn't bring up the real life ****, I'm just pointing out that the folks who are arguing based on "real life" are using an "I saw it in a movie" understanding of real life.

In real life, no, you cannot pinpoint something based on a passively received ping captured by a single detector. There is a reason triangulation/trilateration exist. You can get a rough notion of the heading and distance. Incidentally, active radar is far better at pinpointing things, because active radar starts with a lot more information (it knows the direction, time, and frequency of the outbound signal, so it can far more accurately gauge distance, adjust for doppler shift, etc., while a passively received signal is relying on an estimate of the signal strength and attenuation to guess about distance).

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2016-02-08 19:36:44 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.


I thought you didn't like space-magic? Blink



cyno beacons aren't magic, so why would an active radar beacon be magic? You're just jealous that I'm fabulous and you're not.



Cyno beacons, being beacons, would presumably function like any other beacon (such as an EPIRB ).

I didn't bring up the real life ****, I'm just pointing out that the folks who are arguing based on "real life" are using an "I saw it in a movie" understanding of real life.

In real life, no, you cannot pinpoint something based on a passively received ping captured by a single detector. There is a reason triangulation/trilateration exist. You can get a rough notion of the heading and distance. Incidentally, active radar is far better at pinpointing things, because active radar starts with a lot more information (it knows the direction, time, and frequency of the outbound signal, so it can far more accurately gauge distance, adjust for doppler shift, etc., while a passively received signal is relying on an estimate of the signal strength and attenuation to guess about distance).

And OP isn't talking about a single ping, he's talking a continous series of pings because he's too lazy to actually use d-scan and wants the game to do it for him.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-02-08 19:42:06 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Iain Cariaba wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.


I thought you didn't like space-magic? Blink



cyno beacons aren't magic, so why would an active radar beacon be magic? You're just jealous that I'm fabulous and you're not.



Cyno beacons, being beacons, would presumably function like any other beacon (such as an EPIRB ).

I didn't bring up the real life ****, I'm just pointing out that the folks who are arguing based on "real life" are using an "I saw it in a movie" understanding of real life.

In real life, no, you cannot pinpoint something based on a passively received ping captured by a single detector. There is a reason triangulation/trilateration exist. You can get a rough notion of the heading and distance. Incidentally, active radar is far better at pinpointing things, because active radar starts with a lot more information (it knows the direction, time, and frequency of the outbound signal, so it can far more accurately gauge distance, adjust for doppler shift, etc., while a passively received signal is relying on an estimate of the signal strength and attenuation to guess about distance).

And OP isn't talking about a single ping, he's talking a continous series of pings because he's too lazy to actually use d-scan and wants the game to do it for him.


Passive reception of continuous pings won't actually do what you're talking about, either.

You could triangulate a stationary continuous radiator by moving around yourself. You could also follow it all the way to the source, as with an anti-radiation missile, but those are pretty constantly doing course adjustments the whole way there. And, of course, they're rather reliant on the radiator continuing to radiate.

:shrug: Sorry. A warp in (or, rather, that kind of location precision) for passive reception is not consistent with real-life. It is consistent with real-life movie portrayals, though. ;)

Whether or not it would be good gameplay is another matter entirely, but as I said before: If we're intent on analogizing with real life, it doesn't work that way. That's without getting into things like LPIR, too.

As is generally the case, I would say "Because real life" offers a fairly poor foundation for game logic here.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-02-08 19:56:42 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.


I thought you didn't like space-magic? Blink



cyno beacons aren't magic, so why would an active radar beacon be magic? You're just jealous that I'm fabulous and you're not.



Cyno beacons, being beacons, would presumably function like any other beacon (such as an EPIRB ).

I didn't bring up the real life ****, I'm just pointing out that the folks who are arguing based on "real life" are using an "I saw it in a movie" understanding of real life.

In real life, no, you cannot pinpoint something based on a passively received ping captured by a single detector. There is a reason triangulation/trilateration exist. You can get a rough notion of the heading and distance. Incidentally, active radar is far better at pinpointing things, because active radar starts with a lot more information (it knows the direction, time, and frequency of the outbound signal, so it can far more accurately gauge distance, adjust for doppler shift, etc., while a passively received signal is relying on an estimate of the signal strength and attenuation to guess about distance).


So turning it on would have the effect of a massively inflated sig bloom for probes and I guess maybe an indicator of the direction to look for?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-02-08 20:00:02 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Frostys Virpio wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Warpable beacon so I can wonk your bot or no freaking way. It's that simple in my mind.


I thought you didn't like space-magic? Blink



cyno beacons aren't magic, so why would an active radar beacon be magic? You're just jealous that I'm fabulous and you're not.



Cyno beacons, being beacons, would presumably function like any other beacon (such as an EPIRB ).

I didn't bring up the real life ****, I'm just pointing out that the folks who are arguing based on "real life" are using an "I saw it in a movie" understanding of real life.

In real life, no, you cannot pinpoint something based on a passively received ping captured by a single detector. There is a reason triangulation/trilateration exist. You can get a rough notion of the heading and distance. Incidentally, active radar is far better at pinpointing things, because active radar starts with a lot more information (it knows the direction, time, and frequency of the outbound signal, so it can far more accurately gauge distance, adjust for doppler shift, etc., while a passively received signal is relying on an estimate of the signal strength and attenuation to guess about distance).


So turning it on would have the effect of a massively inflated sig bloom for probes and I guess maybe an indicator of the direction to look for?



Yes! That's actually quite a good translation from real life to Eve-logic, in fact.

You could actually argue that combat probes in the correct formation should be able to trivially pinpoint an active radiator from distances of well beyond the range of their dscan setting, even.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Lann Shahni
The Happy Grasshoppers
#20 - 2016-02-08 21:52:24 UTC
Realistic... Lol I think someone forgot the speed of light here!
It takes light around 9 minutes to travel one AU!
And all the sensor "modes" in travel at the speed of light!
12Next page