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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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WAR (in HISEC) WHAT is it GOOD FOR?

First post
Author
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-02-07 18:03:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bella Jennie
I perceive the WAR DEC mechanic as an enabler for harassment..

There are players who prefer to live and play constructively at PI and/or mining in HISEC.. The WAR DEC disrupts that.

What's your thoughts?

Note: I sure hope that the only responses I get are NOT " that I should just stop playing Eve"..

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2016-02-07 18:09:54 UTC
I think THAT this is MORE of A rant THAN a actual idea.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2016-02-07 18:20:24 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
I perceive the WAR DEC mechanic as an enabler for harassment..

There are players who prefer to live and play constructively at PI and/or mining in HISEC.. The WAR DEC disrupts that.

What's your thoughts?

Note: I sure hope that the only responses I get are NOT " that I should just stop playing Eve"..

and ...
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-02-07 18:40:50 UTC
Ok, I got it:


I believe that WAR ACTIVITY should not be allowed in HISEC as it is a tool for the harassment of single player & small corporations.

I'll throw out a bone by allowing for a WAR DEC if the declaring party has a kill right.

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#5 - 2016-02-07 18:44:39 UTC
Do you realize how dull eve online is without conflict?

Ever seen someone write a story about how they mined in an asteroid belt for 12 hours in a row?

It's like watching paint dry.
Eve online needs conflict in all zones of gameplay and there shouldn't be an option to say no to it or you get a bunch of theme park players who just bore themselves to death and quit for not interacting with others.

This game is an MMO.
DEAL. WITH. IT.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#6 - 2016-02-07 19:05:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Bella Jennie wrote:
I perceive the WAR DEC mechanic as an enabler for harassment..

There are players who prefer to live and play constructively at PI and/or mining in HISEC.. The WAR DEC disrupts that.

What's your thoughts?

Note: I sure hope that the only responses I get are NOT " that I should just stop playing Eve"..

I think you need to read the Official New Player FAQ found here in the New Citizens Q&A forum: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=307646&find=unread

Pay close attention to Part II (specifically page 22) of the document.

The entire game is predicated on conflict, interference, and non-consensual behavior (for better or worse).

Wars fall under that purview.


And historically (in terms of GMs or DEVs getting involved)... wars, ganking, or other "player unwanted behavior" only becomes "harassment" when the following 3 conditions have been fulfilled:

- non-consensual combat is focused against a specific individual (or group of individuals) by another specific group of individuals. And no, this does apply to certain "kinds" or "types" of players... only individuals.

- it happens over a "long" period of time.
This is a purely contextual and situational thing. Bumping for 5 or 10 minutes is okay. Bumping for 50 to 60 minutes can be petitioned.
Declaring war against a group of individuals for 1 or 2 weeks is okay. Having multiple corporations declare war on a group of individuals in turns over the course of a month may be petitioned.

- the individuals have used multiple options at their disposal and are still being targeted: Like the above point, this is also contextual and situational.
If you keep running into the same gatecamp, at the same place, in the same ship and fit (despite there being other routes, other ships, and other fits you can try out) and you get blown up... it is your fault.
But if you keep running into the same group of gatecampers, in different places, in different types of ships, using different tactics and fits... that may be petitionable.
Likewise... if war is declared against you and all you sit is stay in the same station, take the same routes, and generally carry on as if nothing has changed... it is your own fault.
But you if take measures to avoid the aggressors, move to different locations, are followed, can't negotiate, etc... that may be petitionable.


And yes... only CCP has the right to define what constitutes "harassment" in their own game. They make the rules. You agreed to them when you pressed the button agreeing to the EULA.
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-02-07 19:14:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
there could be several reasons for it but first a brief history:

When EvE released ganking was controlled but as weapons and ships were upgraded it hecame possible to oneshot the odd ship now and then. CCP was pretty quick to rebuffer or buff to stamp it out.

Nullsec was pretty dangerous and low was very dangerous. highsec was relatively safe in comparison. As Oveur the lead dev at the time stated "hghsec is supposed to be relatively safe".

At some stage CCP and the null sec people began to breach the cardinal rule of not only game development but virtually every competitive based business in the world and began mixing business with pleasure. they began hiring from their own customer base, interacting in game inside corporations and alliances, resulting in highly biased development decisions (which ultimately led to the goons taking over all of EvE, including forums and CSM) and devs dropping game changing items (miner 2 bpo etc)'.

by now the game was incurably corrupted. any reasoning to rebalance it was shouted down on forums or locked by a goon. after a while everyone who cared either left the game, was too intimidated to post on forums or just accepted the status quo.

possible reasons they wont fix it:

1: stacked CSM full of null sec people
2: devs too scared to change it fearing goons might unsub for a month dropping income by 99%
3: game is just too FUBAR now. when you have destroyers and crusiers doing battleship dps and costing almost nothing how do you stop ganking?



Have been going around the Forums and came across the post above...
- this is something I have always felt...

That post and reading CCP Falcon's extremist views on gameplay have convinced me to quit...

I'll check back every now and then to see if they fix HISEC the right way..

Have fun..


this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#8 - 2016-02-07 19:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bella Jennie wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The usual stuff expected from IZ


Have been going around the Forums and came across the post above...
- this is something I have always felt...

That post and reading CCP Falcon's extremist views on gameplay have convinced me to quit...

I'll check back every now and then to see if they fix HISEC the right way..

Have fun..


Bye o/, make sure to biomass your character on your way out. We don't even want your stuff, it's contaminated and costs a fortune to cleanse.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2016-02-07 19:27:35 UTC
Generating content and player interaction. Making sure no place in eve is a safe. Generating income. Monopolizing resources. Have I listed enough or do you want more
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#10 - 2016-02-07 19:35:24 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
there could be several reasons for it but first a brief history:

When EvE released ganking was controlled but as weapons and ships were upgraded it hecame possible to oneshot the odd ship now and then. CCP was pretty quick to rebuffer or buff to stamp it out.

Nullsec was pretty dangerous and low was very dangerous. highsec was relatively safe in comparison. As Oveur the lead dev at the time stated "hghsec is supposed to be relatively safe".

At some stage CCP and the null sec people began to breach the cardinal rule of not only game development but virtually every competitive based business in the world and began mixing business with pleasure. they began hiring from their own customer base, interacting in game inside corporations and alliances, resulting in highly biased development decisions (which ultimately led to the goons taking over all of EvE, including forums and CSM) and devs dropping game changing items (miner 2 bpo etc)'.

by now the game was incurably corrupted. any reasoning to rebalance it was shouted down on forums or locked by a goon. after a while everyone who cared either left the game, was too intimidated to post on forums or just accepted the status quo.

possible reasons they wont fix it:

1: stacked CSM full of null sec people
2: devs too scared to change it fearing goons might unsub for a month dropping income by 99%
3: game is just too FUBAR now. when you have destroyers and crusiers doing battleship dps and costing almost nothing how do you stop ganking?



Have been going around the Forums and came across the post above...
- this is something I have always felt...

That post and reading CCP Falcon's extremist views on gameplay have convinced me to quit...

I'll check back every now and then to see if they fix HISEC the right way..

Have fun..

Some people will always quit eve, question is how many more would quit out of boredom if game had no conflict?
I'm going to go with 95%.

Stop pretending that you and your spaceships and friendship is magic ideas are relevant.


EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#11 - 2016-02-07 19:39:08 UTC
Aina Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-02-07 19:59:20 UTC
When thinking about mechanics in eve, what would be realistic? A possibility is that since the empires control Concord it means that they have influence over Concord. So a higher standing with an empire, a higher cost or more difficult to wardec you, because the empires value your corp and influences concord to charge more or make it more difficult to wardec your corp. The wardeccers can naturally have high standings themselves and reduce the cost.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#13 - 2016-02-07 20:32:54 UTC
Iain Cariaba
#14 - 2016-02-07 20:51:03 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
rubbish


Have been going around the Forums and came across the post above...
- this is something I have always felt...

That post and reading CCP Falcon's extremist views on gameplay have convinced me to quit...

I'll check back every now and then to see if they fix HISEC the right way..

Have fun..

Bye. Don't forget to contract me your stuff before you go.
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#15 - 2016-02-07 21:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Snowmann
Arya Regnar wrote:
Bella Jennie wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
there could be several reasons for it but first a brief history:

When EvE released ganking was controlled but as weapons and ships were upgraded it hecame possible to oneshot the odd ship now and then. CCP was pretty quick to rebuffer or buff to stamp it out.

Nullsec was pretty dangerous and low was very dangerous. highsec was relatively safe in comparison. As Oveur the lead dev at the time stated "hghsec is supposed to be relatively safe".

At some stage CCP and the null sec people began to breach the cardinal rule of not only game development but virtually every competitive based business in the world and began mixing business with pleasure. they began hiring from their own customer base, interacting in game inside corporations and alliances, resulting in highly biased development decisions (which ultimately led to the goons taking over all of EvE, including forums and CSM) and devs dropping game changing items (miner 2 bpo etc)'.

by now the game was incurably corrupted. any reasoning to rebalance it was shouted down on forums or locked by a goon. after a while everyone who cared either left the game, was too intimidated to post on forums or just accepted the status quo.

possible reasons they wont fix it:

1: stacked CSM full of null sec people
2: devs too scared to change it fearing goons might unsub for a month dropping income by 99%
3: game is just too FUBAR now. when you have destroyers and crusiers doing battleship dps and costing almost nothing how do you stop ganking?



Have been going around the Forums and came across the post above...
- this is something I have always felt...

That post and reading CCP Falcon's extremist views on gameplay have convinced me to quit...

I'll check back every now and then to see if they fix HISEC the right way..

Have fun..

Some people will always quit eve, question is how many more would quit out of boredom if game had no conflict?
I'm going to go with 95%.

Stop pretending that you and your spaceships and friendship is magic ideas are relevant.



The sad thing is that what Infinity Ziona wrote there kind of explains the drift I have seen in the game over the years and why some things were never corrected or were allowed to happen.

Now if it is coincidence and simply a conspiracy theory, I don't really know, but it really does fit some things.

What would it mean to the game if what he said was all true? Probably nothing more than Eve remaining the obscure griefer's paradise it has been for the last 6-8 years.

Edit: I have to agree though, CCPs inaction on several issues over the years has FUBAR'd this game in many ways.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#16 - 2016-02-07 21:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
Snowmann wrote:


The sad thing is that what Infinity Ziona wrote there kind of explains the drift I have seen in the game over the years and why some things were never corrected or were allowed to happen.

Now if it is coincidence and simply a conspiracy theory, I don't really know, but it really does fit some things.

What would it mean to the game if what he said was all true? Probably nothing more than Eve remaining the obscure griefer's paradise it has been for the last 6-8 years.

Edit: I have to agree though, CCPs inaction on several issues over the years has FUBAR'd this game in many ways.


Yeah they made the game too risk averse and included too many safe zones.
Eve caters to a specific part of gamers and does that quite well, distancing Eve from that by making it more mainstream will get some of the *wow playerbase* but it will lose far more of those that generate content.

Griefers paradise haha, it's been getting soft, see corp FF, personal hangars, citadels, ehp buffs, dunk nerfs etc.

Eve is a game that doesn't take no for an answer and the players that have been around for long mostly enjoy that aspect of it.

Pls no PVP.
Twisted*Nope, spacks you with a fish*

Eve with no conflict in highsec is like playing with cheats, you have it all and then what, the game sucks and it ceases to be fun because you can opt out of risk and do stupid things with no consequence, the thrill of taking a ride in adrenaline park except the train moves at 1 meter per second and the tracks are level without curves.

And people say they would take that ride and not get bored of it.

Go play sim city and when you want to get a stimulating game come back so I can shoot you in the face with neutron blasters.
And you will complain, but secretly you like it.

You just don't know it.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-02-07 22:16:36 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
I perceive the WAR DEC mechanic as an enabler for harassment..

There are players who prefer to live and play constructively at PI and/or mining in HISEC.. The WAR DEC disrupts that.

What's your thoughts?

Note: I sure hope that the only responses I get are NOT " that I should just stop playing Eve"..


The real solution here is for all these high sec corps to seek one another out, form coalitions in HS space that are able to hire defense contractors for their mining, PI and manufacturing ops.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#18 - 2016-02-07 22:38:16 UTC
Quote:

Forum rules

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.



Stop that.

Closed.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department