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Stepping up from a ratting Maelstrom
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DIsposible Hero
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-01-10 05:30:39 UTC
So I currently use a Maelstrom for ratting in nullsec and I'm looking to improve my DPS, because as we all know, damage per second = isk per second. Because I'm using this in null, i'm looking for something not too much more expensive; our intel channel is good, but inevitably i'm going to lose it one day.

At the moment I'm looking at either a Vargur or a Machariel, both of which I would have to train for, but there may be other, better options.

The other alternative is faction fitting my Maelstrom, maybe swapping the gyros for republic fleet gyros, but I'm not sure how much bang for my buck I'll be getting that way.

Or maybe I just need to re-think my fit and try using autocannons. My current fit (from memory) is as follows:

Maelstrom

High:
8x1400mm 'Scout' Autocannon

Mid:
4x rat-specific hardeners
1x Meta 4 afterburner
1x XL Shield booster

Low:

3x Gyrostabilizer II
1x Tracking Enhancer
1x PDU

Rigs:

1x EM Screen reinforcer
2x Capacitor Control Circuit

Thoughts?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2012-01-10 10:41:00 UTC
Thoughts?


Tengu.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Cormallin
Horizon Security
#3 - 2012-01-10 11:43:48 UTC
Switch to 800 autocannons with 2 tracking enhancers and 3 gyros and just pop things at 30-50km it can "snipe" out to 70km for poping frigs.

My advice would be to fit large booster with a boost amp to get the most outa the shield bonus so something like 3 hardners, AB, Amp, and a Large booster just use your AB and Pulse the Booster for what little tanking you will need.

It realy depends on the rats your killing against Angels, Sanshas and Serpentis its easy to keep at range and you will hardly need to use the shield booster at all but against missile spamming Guristas you need a hard tank.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-10 12:06:02 UTC
Sleipnir or loki? PvE in fast ships ftw
Robert Lefcourt
BigPoppaMonkeys
E.B.O.L.A.
#5 - 2012-01-10 14:58:54 UTC
Cormallin wrote:
Switch to 800 autocannons with 2 tracking enhancers and 3 gyros and just pop things at 30-50km it can "snipe" out to 70km for poping frigs.


^ this.
Orlacc
#6 - 2012-01-10 16:01:08 UTC
Robert Lefcourt wrote:
Cormallin wrote:
Switch to 800 autocannons with 2 tracking enhancers and 3 gyros and just pop things at 30-50km it can "snipe" out to 70km for poping frigs.


^ this.


Again this^^

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
JunkRaider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-01-10 18:42:46 UTC
Mach and nightmare are good choices, if you want the best of the best.
Skorpynekomimi
#8 - 2012-01-10 20:53:01 UTC
A Vargur would be a pretty good choice for null, IMO. Can tractor/salvage as you go to get at choice loot, the same DPS with half the ammo consumption, and some other utility highs for neuts.

Economic PVP
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-01-10 21:07:18 UTC
Get Tech 2 weapons before worrying bout faction BS?
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#10 - 2012-01-10 21:29:49 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
A Vargur would be a pretty good choice for null, IMO. Can tractor/salvage as you go to get at choice loot, the same DPS with half the ammo consumption, and some other utility highs for neuts.


I wanted to post this very thing. With 800's. The price tag is the only drawback. You'll be approaching a billion even without faction mods. 750 mil last I checked for just the hull.

That said, if you can swallow the cost it would be a perfect ship for what you do.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Aamrr
#11 - 2012-01-10 21:30:10 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
A Vargur would be a pretty good choice for null, IMO. Can tractor/salvage as you go to get at choice loot, the same DPS with half the ammo consumption, and some other utility highs for neuts.


And with T2 tractor beams, they're even more attractive. I noticed that change happened with very little fanfare from the forum community.
DIsposible Hero
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-01-10 21:43:51 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Get Tech 2 weapons before worrying bout faction BS?


Yeah, I'm looking at the long-term here.

Sounds like its a Vargur I'm looking at, and my corp-mates all agree. I'll definitely try that 800mm build though, thanks!
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-01-11 02:06:50 UTC
with the large falloff range of 800mms and the awsomeness of tracking enhancers your doing something wrong if your not using autocannons. Ill go as far to say as you can ditch the AB if you use 2 TEs and are fighting angels. Also get t2 ACs barrage is winsauce
Skorpynekomimi
#14 - 2012-01-11 04:55:03 UTC
I also second the 800s/2xTC build. I use that on my mission boat, and the 40km falloff is win.

Economic PVP
DIsposible Hero
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-01-12 04:05:50 UTC
Alright I've tried it, but I cannot for the life of me get 800mm autocannons to work, at all. I should mention I'm fighting Sanshas, and they like to hover at 48km, just outside the range where I can do any significant damage. Due to their resists, I'm also forced to use EMP ammo, which cuts down my range considerably.

I've tried 2x tracking computers, but there's no way I can keep enough tank that way. I've tried no tracking comp but 2x or 3x tracking enhancers, not enough range. I've tried subbing the afterburner out but then they just kite me. I think the specific rats I'm dealing with are making autocannons look like less of a good idea than they seem on paper.
Cormallin
Horizon Security
#16 - 2012-01-12 08:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Cormallin
Sorry you cant get the 800 setup working for you, been using it a fair while now so Im used to keeping my transversal up against other BS to the point I rarely need to shield boost, under heavy fire fly at a 90 degree angle once you have thinned the enemy herd close for the kill, if your getting to the stage where your about to trigger another wave align out and get ready to pop any npc tacklers.
Alua Oresson
UpAllNight Corp
#17 - 2012-01-12 12:00:59 UTC
DIsposible Hero wrote:
Alright I've tried it, but I cannot for the life of me get 800mm autocannons to work, at all. I should mention I'm fighting Sanshas, and they like to hover at 48km, just outside the range where I can do any significant damage. Due to their resists, I'm also forced to use EMP ammo, which cuts down my range considerably.

I've tried 2x tracking computers, but there's no way I can keep enough tank that way. I've tried no tracking comp but 2x or 3x tracking enhancers, not enough range. I've tried subbing the afterburner out but then they just kite me. I think the specific rats I'm dealing with are making autocannons look like less of a good idea than they seem on paper.


How are your gunnery support skills? If your support skills aren't very good then you aren't going to get the range that you need in order to hit anything very well.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Jodie Amille
EVE Corporation 690846971
#18 - 2012-01-12 12:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jodie Amille
I would highly recommend abaddon( or nightmare, but using faction BS for ratting is kinda overkill and generally not a good investment) vs sansha's, especially if you don't mind cross-training. Fighting at the bare end of your falloff with the mael is hardly efficient.

EDIT, vargur would still be an ok choice, but not as good as a paladin. As I said, depends on how much, or if, you want to crosstrain
Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
#19 - 2012-01-12 23:33:56 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Sleipnir or loki? PvE in fast ships ftw


I fly a sleipnir primarily, it's not as good for PvE content as a BS hull but the advantage of having a full PvP fit on you at all times really opens your options up if you live in a violent region.

Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all.
DIsposible Hero
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-13 00:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: DIsposible Hero
Yeah, it seems like cross-training to Amarr is going to be worthwhile, the issues I'm running into are fourfold:

1. Sanshas like to kite
2. Sansha's weakest resists are EM and Thermal, which necessitates short-ranged projectile ammo
3. Maelstrom is shield-tanked, thus my default resists are not optimal for the damage type they deal either
4. Maelstrom is sloooooooooooooow.

It really does seem like I'd be better off with an Amarr BS. Lasers for EM and Therm damage dealing at any range, and an armor tank with the resists already focussed towards EM and Therm.

In the meantime, I've tried changing out two hardeners for tracking computers with optimal range scripts, and that's working a LOT better than expected. The lack of tank is offset by the fact that I'm now pretty much always in optimal. I just have to be careful not to let them get on top of me...
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