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Rookie corp scams. Yey or ney?

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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#41 - 2016-02-04 08:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Sturmwolke wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

  1. Newbros have nothing worth to scam them out of it, so this is no danger at all for them. The only reason anyone brings newbros up in this kind of topic is because he is probably a 10 year old "newbro" in said corp who got scamed by an actual newbro
  2. Scaming older people is a really good way to make money for a newbro, it's probably to fastest way for them to get really rich. So why would you take that away from them?

They wouldn't be scamming newbies if it wasn't anything worth doing. "Nothing worth to scam" is an insensible argument.

Time and effort is an intangible thing that people often forget (all they see are isk numbers). Newbies, generally are more willing invest put time and effort into something. This can be exploited as a form of corp slavery, with the victim being completely oblivious to what is taking place.

Secondly, they're also ripe for scams when PLEXes are exchanged for isk. These they can buy outright from CCP at any time.

No one said they are scamming newbros, just that some people scam in the NPC noob corps which is full of old players.

So what amout of ISK has a newbro which is worth scamming them off? his 10k starter ISK or something?

Also if they use PLEX to get ISK (classic RMT), then it should be perfectly valid to scam them out of it.

Evil RatKid
Black Pedro
Mine.
#42 - 2016-02-04 09:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Sturmwolke wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

  1. Newbros have nothing worth to scam them out of it, so this is no danger at all for them. The only reason anyone brings newbros up in this kind of topic is because he is probably a 10 year old "newbro" in said corp who got scamed by an actual newbro
  2. Scaming older people is a really good way to make money for a newbro, it's probably to fastest way for them to get really rich. So why would you take that away from them?

They wouldn't be scamming newbies if it wasn't anything worth doing. "Nothing worth to scam" is an insensible argument.

Time and effort is an intangible thing that people often forget (all they see are isk numbers). Newbies, generally are more willing invest put time and effort into something. This can be exploited as a form of corp slavery, with the victim being completely oblivious to what is taking place.

Secondly, they're also ripe for scams when PLEXes are exchanged for isk. These they can buy outright from CCP at any time.

No one said they are scamming newbros, just that some people scam in the NPC noob corps which is full of old players.

So what amout of ISK has a newbro which is worth scamming them off? his 10k started ISK or something?

Also if they use PLEX to get ISK (classic RMT), then it should be perfectly valid to scam them out of it.

This is absolutely correct. NPC corps are rife with veterans purposely exploiting the free safety of the NPC corp, veterans who think of themselves as "newbies", and alts, all of which may be plentiful with ISK. No one is going to go through the effort to specifically target actual new players with 15M ISK and a destroyer to their name.

The real crime are these veterans in the NPC corp who fill the heads of new players with poisonous ideas like how even looking at a gate to a 0.4 or lower system will have their ship explode, or that mining is a great way to get started in this game (while these same veterans are multiboxing Skiff fleets from the safety of the NPC corp driving down ore prices and making it impossible for these new players to make a decent income). Or perhaps even worse, the scam/terribad corps that recruit new players and force them to mine or mission with horrible ore buy back programs or usurious tax rates purely for the personal enrichment of the CEO.

So no, someone running a scam to target the fat whales hiding in the NPC corp is not a problem. If you want to give newbies more safety, then you would need to have a way that only truly new players get that safety, or the multitude of shameless veterans in this game will wrap themselves in the flag of the "new player" and hide behind it like they already do everyday.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#43 - 2016-02-04 11:04:34 UTC
I think a game really needs more things to do when scamming players becomes content. But there should be a big red lettered disclaimer when logging on for the first time which warns players not to trust anyone anytime and that many players in this game are egocentric thieving d........gs, but do have fun! Big smile
Officer Pressly
Doomheim
#44 - 2016-02-04 11:39:23 UTC
If a new guy starts out, he isnt going to have the same scam awarness that a veteran has. Why shouldnt we set Our foot Down and protect them in their first month against loosing absoluty everything they have? In my opinion its not helping the game overall, to suckerpunch a newlyborn. Why should it matter that some of the players in eve doesnt leave the starter corporation, what does this even have to do with new player retention? ^^
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer
Norwegian Seal Clubbers
#45 - 2016-02-04 17:04:05 UTC
Why not make scamming somewhat punishable by linking the scamming alt to all the alts on that account?

I do know that many of the scammers are persons in executive positions in large merc corps and big nullsec alliances.

Thereby we could put those scammers main alts on a HIT list, where everytime the alt get killed and podded a pool of isk is released to the killers...


So mark the scammers account and give them permanent suspect status :D
Memphis Baas
#46 - 2016-02-04 18:50:03 UTC
Let's make manufacturing punishable by linking all the manufacturer's production, trading, and hauling alts. So that whenever someone kills that transport for the loot, they also get a huge bounty from the manufacturer's very fat wallet.

And let's mark the scam victim's alts and mains too; make the Bio field unable to be edited, and every time they fall for a scam, put a line in there detailing how big a moron they were, how much ISK they lost, and 5 links to 5 different online guides similar to the EVE University one, explaining how they could have avoided the scam.

And let's link and make public the forum alts / main characters. Eliminate the need for people to ask to "post with your main."
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer
Norwegian Seal Clubbers
#47 - 2016-02-05 00:46:06 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Let's make manufacturing punishable by linking all the manufacturer's production, trading, and hauling alts. So that whenever someone kills that transport for the loot, they also get a huge bounty from the manufacturer's very fat wallet.

And let's mark the scam victim's alts and mains too; make the Bio field unable to be edited, and every time they fall for a scam, put a line in there detailing how big a moron they were, how much ISK they lost, and 5 links to 5 different online guides similar to the EVE University one, explaining how they could have avoided the scam.

And let's link and make public the forum alts / main characters. Eliminate the need for people to ask to "post with your main."



Why do i feel you get offended by marking the scammers account and make them huntable for everyone?
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2016-02-05 00:55:45 UTC
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:
Why do i feel you get offended by marking the scammers account and make them huntable for everyone?

Probably because it's the stupidest idea to hit this forum in 2016

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#49 - 2016-02-05 01:21:44 UTC
Officer Pressly wrote:
I've noticed that in some of the starter corporations,...


Ok for a minute there i thought you meant rookie Help channel, which is out of bounds for scamming, or should be.
The racial default corps with their 11% tax are where anyone without a corp goes and scamming is going to happen.
They guy who recruited pve players from there into his corp, told them it was time to move to null, then got all their crap into a freighter and kicked them? Yeah, sorta funny, once. But he made a career out of it from 2011 to 2013.
Since left the game.
Help channel and Rookie Help must be as off-limits as starter systems.
Everything else is the field, i'm afraid.

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer
Norwegian Seal Clubbers
#50 - 2016-02-05 12:46:08 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:
Why do i feel you get offended by marking the scammers account and make them huntable for everyone?

Probably because it's the stupidest idea to hit this forum in 2016


Well... its similar to give players killright on those that kill their pod. Again, it seems you react in ways that you might be covering for something :)
Memphis Baas
#51 - 2016-02-05 13:20:03 UTC
No, it's not similar. You're talking about either revealing all the alts, or at the very least making them permanently suspect.

No activity in EVE, not even actual exploits or harassment, results in us players finding out information about someone else's account. If they want to reveal their alts via the API system, that is a completely voluntary thing. Otherwise, no.

In addition, you seem to think that "punishment" is needed for what is otherwise an acceptable in-game activity. Do you believe that pirates should be punished? Suicide gankers? Corp thieves? Corp spies? Awoxers? If the answer is yes, then IMO, other valid in-game activities should be punished: manufacturing, mining, running missions, exploration, trading.

Finally, are you going to accuse everyone who defends scamming of being a scammer? Really?
Memphis Baas
#52 - 2016-02-05 13:37:58 UTC
Actually, you know what, yeah they should go ahead and make the scammer's main character suspect.

If the guy's figured out how to successfully scam billions out of people, he can probably figure out how to bait, trick, and totally gank all the victims, who are either innocents who are clueless about the game, or morons who are too greedy for their own good. So let them attack this guy's bait ship, get the limited engagement timer, and be ganked by the guy.

Because attacking a suspect or criminal doesn't guarantee success, it just guarantees that the guy can shoot back. So that way they can lose their ship too, which will make them feel better, because the ship insurance mechanic will put some green text in their wallet journal to counter all the red they've suffered because of the scam. Fewer zeroes in the green than in the red, but hey, green is green, right?

I think you should post in this thread from now on.
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer
Norwegian Seal Clubbers
#53 - 2016-02-05 16:21:31 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
No, it's not similar. You're talking about either revealing all the alts, or at the very least making them permanently suspect.

No activity in EVE, not even actual exploits or harassment, results in us players finding out information about someone else's account. If they want to reveal their alts via the API system, that is a completely voluntary thing. Otherwise, no.

In addition, you seem to think that "punishment" is needed for what is otherwise an acceptable in-game activity. Do you believe that pirates should be punished? Suicide gankers? Corp thieves? Corp spies? Awoxers? If the answer is yes, then IMO, other valid in-game activities should be punished: manufacturing, mining, running missions, exploration, trading.

Finally, are you going to accuse everyone who defends scamming of being a scammer? Really?



So Your are arguing to let the scammers hide behind their alt? even tho its against all common sence? The fact that CCP never punish scamming, is an open invite from CCP for all others to scam to. So shame upon all of you that defend, argue for or support scamming in EVE.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#54 - 2016-02-05 17:00:27 UTC
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:
So Your are arguing to let the scammers hide behind their alt? even tho its against all common sence? The fact that CCP never punish scamming, is an open invite from CCP for all others to scam to. So shame upon all of you that defend, argue for or support scamming in EVE.
Wait, what? Scamming is intended game play. It is not in a grey area or against any rules, so yes CCP is inviting their players to try to scam one another.

Do you even know what type of game you are playing?

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Officer Pressly
Doomheim
#55 - 2016-02-06 01:02:37 UTC
Cool I see the general population of GD has started to crawl in.. Lol

I personally don't have anything aginst scammers, greifers, pirating etc etc.
I'm just worried that we would loose potential awsome newbro's, when hardned veterans can get easy pickings in the ROOKIE CORPORATIONS.

Let the rookies get a while to understand the pits of this game Twisted
Paranoid Loyd
#56 - 2016-02-06 01:07:38 UTC
Better loose than tight. Blink

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Memphis Baas
#57 - 2016-02-06 02:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Officer Pressly wrote:
Let the rookies get a while to understand the pits of this game Twisted


Better lose a little, early, than lose a lot, later. Technically, scamming is one of the big dangers that newbies should learn about, and rather soon.

EDIT: I don't condone it, or like it, but there are valid arguments on either side, which is what I'm trying to illustrate. The rules about protecting newbies are stated in a specific way, the scamming spam is happening, and the whole matter can be discussed ad infinitum, but only resolved with a simple petition to CCP from the newbie victim.

IDEA: Maybe CCP could MOTD the newbie corp channels with a link to the EVE-U wiki.
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#58 - 2016-02-06 02:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ibutho Inkosi
Putting glass in someone's oatmeal is such a horrid thing to do! I'm so glad we're all brothers and sisters here in this world and in EVE. I only regret I can't invite you all to my house for a nice, hearty breakfast! It seems like something most of you would enjoy....but at the least it's something that you deserve. Cool

Did somebody say this is all just a "game"?

Addendum

Okay okay. I sat down with my girlfriend. She's from Spain, I'm ah 'murican. She's holding the remote trying to find something intelligent on TV. I'm choking back shouting, "YEAH RIGHT!" So I tell her about this thread, including the fact people actually say "lying in a video game isn't really lying" and "stealing from people in a video game isn't really stealing." (The courts of The Netherlands differ on that point. To them stealing in a video game is just like stealing IRL and carries with it a jail sentence upon conviction.)

So, I asked her "What if a group of people use their free will and decide to become a bunch of a$$holes? What if they got T-shirts that said, "I'm an a$$hole" and "$o am I." Could I start a group called "I run over a$$hole$ with my car?"

She, of course, laughed.

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Avvy
Doomheim
#59 - 2016-02-06 15:26:51 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
This is Evopedia on the subject ...


Quote:
Warning: Attempting to abuse a new player’s lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. This includes, but is not limited to; tricking new players into situations where you or others may open fire on them freely or scamming ISK or assets from them. Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the EVE Online Terms of Service.

Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team.



Note this references Rookie Systems not corp chat.



Does it?

They could be in a rookie system as NPC corp. chat doesn't distinguish between systems.

So by scamming in NPC corp. chat you are taking a risk.

Only way to safeguard yourselves is to check the date of birth of your mark.
Memphis Baas
#60 - 2016-02-06 15:33:40 UTC
Or, heh heh heh, NOT scam newbies.

You know, if you promise to double ISK, and it's a newbie that sends you the ISK, keep your promise and double it. After all, how much can they send anyway, right?