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Adding lasting consequence to Skill Packet use, aka Space AIDS
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
#1 - 2016-02-01 22:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Pleasure Hub Node-514
Looking for additional feedback on a proposal I brought to reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/41nzds/adding_lasting_consequence_to_skill_packet_use/

Image: http://imgur.com/p68AEX4

You can extract and inject your own SP without issue. However, once that skill packet leaves the station, either by you hauling or trading it on the market or directly to another player with a contract, it then becomes classified as foreign genetic material.

If you inject this contaminated genetic matter you are infected and your character displays a permanent appearance change. Stage 1 space AIDS (term is subject to change). This can increase in severity if more foreign skill packets are injected. The player can reverse much of this damage (not all) by purchasing a character resculpt which will reset your appearance back to stage 1 (not pure appearance state).

This appearance change is purely cosmetic and does not affect player attributes. It may however affect your ability to interact in EVE from a social/roleplay standpoint as some corporations may deny your membership if you display ravaged markings of skill injector use (or on the other hand are too pure skin for the likes of synths). Corp recruiters may ask you to perform an initial or periodic strip search in joining a corporation (e.g. wearing open shirts for a recruiter to clearly inspect the full body avatar of a player).

Again, you can play around with your current SP without appearance penalty, but you are always losing SP that way because of the diminishing returns system. If you want to inject new SP provided by other players you have to make a difficult, irreversible choice.


This has a payoff for CCP in several important ways.
-Drives CCP desire to create living science fiction by fostering social conflict without impact gameplay balance.
-Potential for driving social science research on how players respond to stigmas about appearance.
-Encourage additional purchases of Character Resculpt packets.

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-02-01 23:17:07 UTC
But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?

If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too?
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
#3 - 2016-02-01 23:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rovinia
Danika Princip wrote:
But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?

If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too?


Hunterkiller-Virus of course. Do you kids learn nothing at scool these days?

Great work with the pics :)
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
#4 - 2016-02-01 23:44:44 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?

If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too?

We could deffer to Fifth Element Technobable. The process of fusing others' memories into another capsuleer changes the number of its DNA memogroups. Alteration of the memogroups affects the epidermis of every prepared clone. Some may argue 'knowledge' isn't solely located in the brain--it's a somatic experience as well. e.g. Muscle memory and cellular conditioning used to respond to the instruction set sent by the brain.

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#5 - 2016-02-02 01:06:08 UTC
this seems like it would be 100% a waste of developer time.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#6 - 2016-02-02 03:04:47 UTC
As I said in your reddit thread

Alundil wrote:
How would this have the desired visual impact in a setting which features and relies upon the usage of clones that are routinely destroyed and renewed? Cool artwork nonetheless, but I don't see this being a useful indicator of who has used skill packs.

I don't see this being a useful point of reference on whether a pilot has used (injected out extracted) skill packs. The act of using a clone means that any cosmetic effects rendered on the 'active clone' would not be propagated to clones created before that point. Finding a way around that means CCP would then have to maintain the skill point totals for each clone individually. This would be a, in a word, nightmare.

I'm right behind you
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-02-02 03:59:25 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
this seems like it would be 100% a waste of developer time.


The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP...
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#8 - 2016-02-02 05:01:45 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP...


Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs.

I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2016-02-02 05:05:47 UTC
Rovinia wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?

If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too?


Hunterkiller-Virus of course. Do you kids learn nothing at scool these days?

Great work with the pics :)


We learn how to spell school.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Thorian Baalnorn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-02-02 05:33:20 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP...


Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs.

I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds.


I am noticing this too. I guess my age would make me middle aged. But i was always told eve is based mostly on player skill and a little bit on character skill. But for some reason the vets are really offended by sp injection.

Personally, i plan on utilizing it. I have a lot of those "secondary skills" that i want to train that never seem to make it to my training queue. Top a lot of skills off i left at lvl 4 because i didnt feel like waiting the weeks to train them.

And you have no idea what CCP has plans on doing long term. They might be planning on adding a bunch of new skill sets for new features and this may be the precursor to that. Or they may be introducing SP loss when you get podded at some point.

Accept the change, Embrace the change, and Profit from the change.

Sometimes you are the squirrel and sometimes you are the nut. Today, you are the nut and the squirrel is hungry.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#11 - 2016-02-02 09:15:54 UTC
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:
Isaac Armer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP...


Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs.

I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds.


I am noticing this too. I guess my age would make me middle aged. But i was always told eve is based mostly on player skill and a little bit on character skill. But for some reason the vets are really offended by sp injection.

Personally, i plan on utilizing it. I have a lot of those "secondary skills" that i want to train that never seem to make it to my training queue. Top a lot of skills off i left at lvl 4 because i didnt feel like waiting the weeks to train them.

And you have no idea what CCP has plans on doing long term. They might be planning on adding a bunch of new skill sets for new features and this may be the precursor to that. Or they may be introducing SP loss when you get podded at some point.

Accept the change, Embrace the change, and Profit from the change.

You give CCP to much credit.

Honestly at this point I'm pretty sure that CCP themselves aren't sure what they're doing to this game anymore. It's like they're just doing experimentations on Eve by taking a "let try this and see what happens approach" and letting the players fill in the gaps for them.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-02-02 09:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Isaac Armer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP...


Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs.

I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds.



That would be because it's a massive leap towards supporting peoples sense of entitlement, impatience and pandering to the flash in the pan instant gratification crowd. People are unhappy about the direction shift this heralds. This is on top of the more obvious ramifications these create including the complete and total removal of consequences for a burned character and the circumvention of the SP penalty for T3 loss is another.

But yeah, if it makes you feel better just assume it's because we're all jealous SP hoarders and none of us actually care about the games longevity. Roll


The trend I'm noticing is that the "non vets" are increasingly impatient, unwilling/reluctant to invest time and effort into things and generally crying about anything not hitting the instant gratification button. Example: All the incessant and I do mean incessant tears about the command ship train. Advanced spaceship command was predicted accurately to be next and they are whining about that too. What next? Adv. weapons upgrades? Jump skills? JDC V? It's pathetic.
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#13 - 2016-02-02 17:33:49 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:


You give CCP to much credit.

Honestly at this point I'm pretty sure that CCP themselves aren't sure what they're doing to this game anymore. It's like they're just doing experimentations on Eve by taking a "let try this and see what happens approach" and letting the players fill in the gaps for them.


Overdramatic much? Eve will still be running in a years time no matter what you say and the ability to blow up skillpoints gets me excited. I think CCP are the perfect custodians of eve even if not all of them understand it.
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-02-02 17:42:58 UTC
If we're looking for a drawback to injecting SP, then how about just listing the amount of injected SP on a players info window?

Simple to track, simple to implement and an easy was to see if the 2 week old character you are looking at is a real threat or not

Cedric
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#15 - 2016-02-02 18:09:50 UTC
Are you seriously trivialising AIDs and the everyday discrimination that sufferers face (both in their personal and professional lives), as well as the unfortunate physical effects they suffer through, by using it as an analogy for an in-game mechanic?

Whilst your artwork is admittedly impressive, I feel that it is way too close to the skin lesions that actual sufferers can develop.


I'm sorry, but it all leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-02-02 18:27:07 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
If we're looking for a drawback to injecting SP, then how about just listing the amount of injected SP on a players info window?

Simple to track, simple to implement and an easy was to see if the 2 week old character you are looking at is a real threat or not



Why do you need to know that anyway? Is there really a need to add free intel that will lead to risk aversion by not engaging someone because he has injected SP in god know what skills?
morion
Lighting Build
#17 - 2016-02-02 20:08:54 UTC
I like it if the draw back is space ugly as a visual use indicator.

We can't all be beautiful.

I suggest something truly beauty damaging though.

AND irrEVErsible like choices we make.

with visual ugly grade to denote SP transfer infection level.

Sorry words I'll try harder.
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
#18 - 2016-02-02 20:33:44 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Are you seriously trivialising AIDs and the everyday discrimination that sufferers face (both in their personal and professional lives), as well as the unfortunate physical effects they suffer through, by using it as an analogy for an in-game mechanic?

Whilst your artwork is admittedly impressive, I feel that it is way too close to the skin lesions that actual sufferers can develop.


I'm sorry, but it all leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Yes, Space AIDS is an offensive term which I resorted to using as it drew attention to a feature in the dank, shitposting /r/EVE crowd (Skillyphilis was also a clever term brought up). I understood my audience.

People have suggested making the symptoms of this skill injection disease look more Jovian (e.g. black webbed nanocircuitry and translucent skin). While I do like the Jovian angle, on the other hand mirroring an epidural disease that's more relatable to human conditions may instill more player self selection and novel discriminatory behavior toward the use of skill injection (one person expressed a disdain to not wanting their character to look like a burn victim. Why is that? Could learning to adapt to these appearances engender empathy toward persons with stigmatized conditions in real life contexts?)

Exploring player attitudes toward stigmatic appearance by way of inner/outer group interaction and character profile picture self representation could be profoundly interesting territory to dive into for social science research.

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#19 - 2016-02-03 00:38:55 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
That would be because it's a massive leap towards supporting peoples sense of entitlement, impatience and pandering to the flash in the pan instant gratification crowd. People are unhappy about the direction shift this heralds. This is on top of the more obvious ramifications these create including the complete and total removal of consequences for a burned character and the circumvention of the SP penalty for T3 loss is another.

But yeah, if it makes you feel better just assume it's because we're all jealous SP hoarders and none of us actually care about the games longevity. Roll


The trend I'm noticing is that the "non vets" are increasingly impatient, unwilling/reluctant to invest time and effort into things and generally crying about anything not hitting the instant gratification button. Example: All the incessant and I do mean incessant tears about the command ship train. Advanced spaceship command was predicted accurately to be next and they are whining about that too. What next? Adv. weapons upgrades? Jump skills? JDC V? It's pathetic.


I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy. You can't in one breath say "skill points don't matter, HTFU, any vet can do well in a low skilled player" then throw a hissy fit when new players get more skillpoints. If you were serious about skill points not mattering, you wouldn't care about skill packets. It would just give you newbies flying ships they can't fly and give you more/better kills. You contradict yourself, and your tears are amazing.

Please keep the salty, salty tears coming.
Thorian Baalnorn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2016-02-03 00:55:58 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:
Isaac Armer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP...


Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs.

I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds.


I am noticing this too. I guess my age would make me middle aged. But i was always told eve is based mostly on player skill and a little bit on character skill. But for some reason the vets are really offended by sp injection.

Personally, i plan on utilizing it. I have a lot of those "secondary skills" that i want to train that never seem to make it to my training queue. Top a lot of skills off i left at lvl 4 because i didnt feel like waiting the weeks to train them.

And you have no idea what CCP has plans on doing long term. They might be planning on adding a bunch of new skill sets for new features and this may be the precursor to that. Or they may be introducing SP loss when you get podded at some point.

Accept the change, Embrace the change, and Profit from the change.

You give CCP to much credit.

Honestly at this point I'm pretty sure that CCP themselves aren't sure what they're doing to this game anymore. It's like they're just doing experimentations on Eve by taking a "let try this and see what happens approach" and letting the players fill in the gaps for them.


You obviously havent played many other games. CCP does a far superior job at game development than any other game developer. Things dont always go as planned because they try not to restrict us to much in what we can do. Its our sandbox they want us to build it the way we want, they just provide the tools.


But overall the game has gotten better since i started playing even if there is an occasional WTF moment or setback.

Sometimes you are the squirrel and sometimes you are the nut. Today, you are the nut and the squirrel is hungry.
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