These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Solution for scam hauling contracts
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Atticus Fynch
#1 - 2012-01-10 18:11:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Atticus Fynch
Absurdly high collateral for little payoff usually are scams.

Public contracts should have a fixed rate of 10% of the collateral value as reward. This will cut down on scam and trap contracts.

Private contracts can be whatever you want them to be.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
#2 - 2012-01-10 18:15:35 UTC
The incorrect assumption here is that CCP wants to stop people from scamming.
Atticus Fynch
#3 - 2012-01-10 18:17:23 UTC
Sishen Gzi wrote:
The incorrect assumption here is that CCP wants to stop people from scamming.


Given the recent insurance nerf, they are headed in that direction. Accept it.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#4 - 2012-01-10 18:27:27 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Sishen Gzi wrote:
The incorrect assumption here is that CCP wants to stop people from scamming.


Given the recent insurance nerf, they are headed in that direction. Accept it.


Insurance changes are a nerf to scamming?

I never knew.
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
#5 - 2012-01-10 18:34:27 UTC
Fixing insurance scamming was a nerf to an exploit, CCP will let us scam each other all we want, they will not let us scam the game. If you don't believe me just petition the next time you get scammed and see how much help you get.
Atticus Fynch
#6 - 2012-01-10 18:37:26 UTC
Changing contract text from "1,000,000,000" t o "1 Billion" in more readable form on contracts was also an attempt to curb scamming.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Goose99
#7 - 2012-01-10 18:42:38 UTC
Public courier contract is a joke. The "legit" ones don't pay enough to be worth anyone's time. Ones that do are buried among the mountain of trash and not worth the effort of digging through to get. There is no scamming in public courier contracts atm, because nobody accepts them.

Fixing rewards as percentage of collateral would open up possibility of successful scamming, as there will then be people willing to be scammed. Simple concept.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#8 - 2012-01-10 18:45:23 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Changing contract text from "1,000,000,000" t o "1 Billion" in more readable form on contracts was also an attempt to curb scamming.

Posting to confirm CCP try really, really hard to curb scamming. Lol

Anyway, from what I've seen they try to design the interface in a way that allows people to avoid scams if they try. Such as ones that rely on the interface not being clear enough, and they also stop you mimicking other players or corporations by creating similarly named entities. But for the most part, you have apparently just not understood Eve.

If you want to accept or ignore a suspicious looking contract, go ahead. If you want to stop people making them, I suggest you go and play WoW, I've heard they punish dishonest players and such.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#9 - 2012-01-10 18:49:48 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Public courier contract is a joke. The "legit" ones don't pay enough to be worth anyone's time. Ones that do are buried among the mountain of trash and not worth the effort of digging through to get. There is no scamming in public courier contracts atm, because nobody accepts them.

Fixing rewards as percentage of collateral would open up possibility of successful scamming, as there will then be people willing to be scammed. Simple concept.

Yes but then CCP are arbitrarily setting the price of a service, rather than competition Roll Something that, for the most part, they try to avoid doing.

Also, if it's set as a percentage of collateral, where does distance come in? Or route? Or pickup station? Will something from Jita -> Amarr cost as much as something from Rancer -> Amamake? Or are you just setting a pathetically small "minimum price", which in effect won't hamper scammers or provide an incentive for people to accept couriers at all?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Atticus Fynch
#10 - 2012-01-10 18:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Atticus Fynch
Simi Kusoni wrote:
If you want to stop people making them, I suggest you go and play WoW, I've heard they punish dishonest players and such.


Not stop.....just make it harder for them. Why the black and white thinking and what does WoW have to do with any of this?

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#11 - 2012-01-10 18:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Atticus Fynch wrote:
[CCP wants to stop people from scamming], they are headed in that direction. Accept it.


Atticus Fynch wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
If you want to stop people making them, I suggest you go and play WoW, I've heard they punish dishonest players and such.


Not stop.....just make it harder for them. Why the black and white thinking? What does WoW have to do with any of this?

You think CCP are headed in the direction of hampering scammers, they aren't. Blizzard are, hence suggesting WoW as an appropriate alternative.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
#12 - 2012-01-10 18:53:13 UTC
Gives great protection to what you're complaining about, doesn't it. CCP making things more readable does not constitute a scamming nerf. People still buy 1 plex for the bargain price of 800 million. If they wanted to nerf scamming they would have made it so you couldn't edit links.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-01-10 19:03:33 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Absurdly high collateral for little payoff usually are scams.

Public contracts should have a fixed rate of 10% of the collateral value as reward. This will cut down on scam and trap contracts.

Private contracts can be whatever you want them to be.



The courier contracts system is working great.
I run all of my supplies via public courier contracts.

High value (greater than 4 billion) & low volume (less than 300m^3) at about 0.4% of the collateral. (typical 20-30 jumps)
Low value (less than 1.5 Billion) & high volume (up to 750K m^3) at about 250K/Jump - On my production route that averages to about 0.15% of the collateral.

Why should we increase shipping costs by 25-60x, when lots of people are clamoring to complete the contracts at the current price (I've never waited more than 24 hours to have a courier contract accepted at those prices)

I'm not sure why anyone would accept those contracts at those prices? I have no idea. But someone always does
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-01-10 21:54:16 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Absurdly high collateral for little payoff usually are scams.

Public contracts should have a fixed rate of 10% of the collateral value as reward. This will cut down on scam and trap contracts.

Private contracts can be whatever you want them to be.



...Why? If I'm moving something worth a lot of isk, it's going to have a lot of collateral. Why, exactly, should CCP enforce a minimum reward?
Goose99
#15 - 2012-01-10 22:56:00 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Absurdly high collateral for little payoff usually are scams.

Public contracts should have a fixed rate of 10% of the collateral value as reward. This will cut down on scam and trap contracts.

Private contracts can be whatever you want them to be.



The courier contracts system is working great.
I run all of my supplies via public courier contracts.

High value (greater than 4 billion) & low volume (less than 300m^3) at about 0.4% of the collateral. (typical 20-30 jumps)
Low value (less than 1.5 Billion) & high volume (up to 750K m^3) at about 250K/Jump - On my production route that averages to about 0.15% of the collateral.

Why should we increase shipping costs by 25-60x, when lots of people are clamoring to complete the contracts at the current price (I've never waited more than 24 hours to have a courier contract accepted at those prices)

I'm not sure why anyone would accept those contracts at those prices? I have no idea. But someone always does



It's either a recent development, or you just pulled that out of your ass.Lol

CCP has stated before concerning the lack of acceptance for public courier contracts (excluding private contracts to corps such as redfrog). And no, I cannot be bothered to find and link the post.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-01-11 00:26:50 UTC
Goose99 wrote:


It's either a recent development, or you just pulled that out of your ass.Lol

CCP has stated before concerning the lack of acceptance for public courier contracts (excluding private contracts to corps such as redfrog). And no, I cannot be bothered to find and link the post.


All I know is that from my sample size (less than 50 contracts) I never have a problem.

It could be because I am always transporting to/from Jita so some redfrog pilot is probably already going that way anyway with room in his freighter. Might as well pick up an extra fare.

I'm not moving trit around, I do pay a lot per m3 per jump. So if someone feels they are can move safely they get a big payout for not a lot of work.
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
#17 - 2012-01-11 02:41:03 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

It's either a recent development, or you just pulled that out of your ass.Lol

CCP has stated before concerning the lack of acceptance for public courier contracts (excluding private contracts to corps such as redfrog). And no, I cannot be bothered to find and link the post.


It's like everything else economic in eve, if the reward for the contract is too low nobody accepts them and the issuer either ups their price or transports their own goods. I regularly use the public courier system to to move bulky items around with a collateral at least 50 times the reward and usually over 100 times. I think the longest I've waited for someone to accept is 1 hour. The OPs idea would have the effect of killing the courier contract system, there is no way I would pay the type of percentage of collateral that the coward wants to make him feel safe hauling.