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[February] Wreck Hitpoint Rebalance

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Gauis Aldent
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#81 - 2016-02-01 19:25:46 UTC
Edward James Reed wrote:
+1 for this change.

Also +1 for probe-scan wrecks: if it's in space - it may be scanned. May bring some interesting opportunities.


Role bonus for the noctis? :)
Bisu Deckryder
Definitely Not Cloaked LLC
#82 - 2016-02-01 19:28:40 UTC
Lamo gankers vs anti gankers is the biggest whine fest in eve. Both sides make the pubbiest null or low sec player looks well rounded
MarkeeDragon
Take The Bait.
Pandemic Horde
#83 - 2016-02-01 19:40:12 UTC
I think this would be a positive change. Will help with griefing a bit.
Femerov
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2016-02-01 19:47:33 UTC
does that also mean we are going to get more salvage from the biger wrecks now they have bigger masses ? :)
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#85 - 2016-02-01 19:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
Popping wrecks quickly is a valid assets denial tactic, and should not be changed.

If wrecks are to get more hitpoints based on ship type (which does make sense) then prevent looting a wreck while it is locked, so that looters have first to take care of ships trying to destroy the wreck before taking the loot.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Sasha Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
Freighter Friends
#86 - 2016-02-01 19:53:32 UTC
As an Ethical Hauler, I'm glad this change is happening. If i ever pick up a scam contract and get ganked, the gankers can no longer pop my wreck containing the contract and deny me my collateral. Now I'll be able to reship and get my wraps from my wrecks upon reshipping at station. Thanks CCP!
death minner
Neutin Local LLC
#87 - 2016-02-01 20:04:16 UTC
Well, if there are going to be more hit-points, it should be due to more salvageable parts of the ship surviving...
death minner
Neutin Local LLC
#88 - 2016-02-01 20:08:00 UTC
Sasha Cohenberg wrote:
As an Ethical Hauler, I'm glad this change is happening. If i ever pick up a scam contract and get ganked, the gankers can no longer pop my wreck containing the contract and deny me my collateral. Now I'll be able to reship and get my wraps from my wrecks upon reshipping at station. Thanks CCP!



or their hauler comes in and loots your wreck while you are trying to reship and you still loose out.
neut alt transfers content to fleet hangar, or whatever and no one gets killed but the neut
Ashla Boga
Pro Synergy
#89 - 2016-02-01 20:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashla Boga
You asked for the feedback from the other thread moved over, so I'll just copy and paste this:

Nyalnara wrote:

Anthar Thebess wrote:
Currently we will have fleet warp changes inbound and when FC cannot warp fleet , people waping to wrecks are very important thing, that we need to have.


Which is exactly why we proposed wreck to need potentially more than one salvager cycle to clear.

I'm sorry to say that one cycle salvaging is done because it's a pass/fail mechanic and if they complete in one cycle it's because they have good skills or lots of luck, not because all wrecks just magically are always only one cycle. This would be a sucker punch to real salvagers that do this all the time to just arbitrarily remove the success rate system so the wrecks don't get salvaged as quickly.

As far as the OP and wreck EHP, I've got to say for player wrecks especially every size of wreck being insta-pop isn't a great thing currently. I think it would also hurt gankers to make MTU's unable to tractor from a warp gate in a system or immediately off of stations. I understand that 90% of the time that MTU just gets killed by someone with a halfway decent ship who doesn't mind going suspect, but it's pretty frustrating to see a 30 wreck ball of empty wrecks gathered around one after a gank, knowing it's probably just an alt of one of the gankers. Maybe we could make MTUs go suspect if they pull ganker/ganked wrecks in >:) so players aren't penalized for killing it then.

Also I think it's freaking RIDICULOUS that you can go to salvage an elite cruiser or battleship wreck and only get 1000 isk worth from it sometimes. If they play with sizes they should play with material drop as well. If it costs 200 m, 500m, 1000m to build it, it shouldn't drop 4 metal scraps alone. Just my two cents.

(a) Change the wreck ehps based on size? Yes!
(b) Change looting mechanics for MTUs and gankers? Yes!
(c) Change base composition of various sized wrecks? Yes!

Wrecks are still only going to last 2 hours even if they are bigger after all.

(P.S. no pun intended - anytime you're dealing with wreck stuff, you should totally come to me first, I'm an expert in the field.... of blue triangles.)

*EDIT*
Cargo Containers dying in a single shot are seriously a big pain to missioners that brush the F1 or other key set to fire as they are trying to play the game. I've personally shot a few, so I know that cargo cans might be look at as well.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#90 - 2016-02-01 20:34:44 UTC
Can we make the wrecks bumpable? It would leave a way to steal/deny loot.

A signature :o
Commander IceQ
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2016-02-01 20:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander IceQ
My Little Friend wrote:
I'm glad to see that CCP is focusing on fixing the real issues rather than wasting time on silly things like sov or incentives to fight over it. I quite look forward to seeing my titan wreck getting shot multiple times when I die in lowsec because of the poorly thought out jump range and fatigue changes.

+1 I support this change and other important issues like this one.

Yes and CCP only has 2 Developers... Roll

Seriously? If a post does not affect the part of the game that matters to you, why bother posting? They have teams focusing on different aspects of the game. Why not go raise your issue in We want your SOV little things! and Jump Fatigue Feedback instead of whining in posts that are not relevant to your concerns? Grow up a little.

OT: I have lost millions accidentally shooting my own wrecks. Oops I definitely support this.

I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.
Ashla Boga
Pro Synergy
#92 - 2016-02-01 20:36:16 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Sharps wrote:
Also, can we probe down wrecks now please?

This would be awesome.
+1


I thought about proposing a hybrid wreck system where instead of the current 2 hour timer, it has like a 90 minute "Marked as how player left it" timer, then the wrecks turn blue and it gets a 90 minute scannable Core Probe signature.

Example:

Player kills another player, wreck is left behind for 90 minutes, he didn't mark it as anything, so it's white to fleet and corp as per usual; after 90 minutes that wreck if the player has not returned becomes a blue wreck with a signature to scan it down.

Example 2:

Players slaughters a field of rats, doesn't bookmark it, doesn't salvage it. Field is yellow for first 90 minutes, then it turns blue and becomes a
- Small Wreck Cluster
- Medium Wreck Cluster
- Large Wreck Cluster
Based on how many wrecks and sizes they were and is able to be scanned down. This would add some life into the exploration and salvaging trades, and give new players with few contacts other than a little Magnate and probe module a chance to make some isk while learning to probe better. I think it would overall reduce server lag compared to 2 hour system now.

Could also work with just adding a 60 minute scannable timer, or even change it to 60 minutes of white/yellow, 2 hours of scannable and blue abandoned wrecks (would be even better in my eyes!)
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#93 - 2016-02-01 20:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mai Khumm
Sarah Flynt wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Carrier, Dread, Rorqual, Orca, Freighter: 15000 hp
You do realize that this is a massive buff to freighter ganking?

When can we expect a fix for risk free looting in highsec via a fleet hangar/freight container/can and a laundering alt in return?

Never...that actually goes against Goons/CODE and obviously some CSM members looking out for the greater good of Goonswarm Online!
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2016-02-01 20:45:51 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Hehe, wreck popping was one of the few effective ways of interrupting work of large freighter ganker groups in hisec (primarily goons and thier code alts), so it is nice to see that CSM is working for the null block interests as per usual.

Now, I have nothing against this proposal but there is a major caveat - if you're gonna do this please fix the ability to loot other people's cargo while avoiding getting suspect flagged for it.

What I'm referring to is the fact that one can get next to a yellow wreck with a ship with fleet hanger (e.g. Deep space transport or an Orca) and a character in a noob ship, use the character in the noob ship to transfer cargo to DST and only the noob ship guy will get suspect flagged while DST will merrily warp away with stolen goods.

Please fix this so that Fleet hanger ship can't receive such (illegal) loot or can do it but gets flagged in the process (obviously, make it so that it is not prone to abuse). Do that, and I don't think many will care about EHP of the wrecks.
LMAO clever use of game mechanics.

And no, your proposal makes no sense. Loot is loot, it's just stuff, there's no such thing as 'illegal loot'.


Anyway, good change makes sense.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Lou Arnoux
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2016-02-01 20:55:38 UTC
Very good change. Will provide good gameplay options for currently uncounterable tactics.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2016-02-01 20:59:52 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
LMAO clever use of game mechanics.
And no, your proposal makes no sense. Loot is loot, it's just stuff, there's no such thing as 'illegal loot'.
Anyway, good change makes sense.

I know, right, clever way to avoid intended consequences of looting somebody else's stuff.
As for illegal looting, call it what you will, the point is that it is supposed to flag you as a suspect if you pick it up which this "cleverness" circumvents.
Mintoko
Taedium In Perpetuam
#97 - 2016-02-01 21:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mintoko
Lou Arnoux wrote:
Very good change. Will provide good gameplay options for currently uncounterable tactics.


You mean not being able to counter a wreck being popped to deny the looting? Popping a wreck is already a counter for ganking. Now you want a counter for the counter?
Pale Peril
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#98 - 2016-02-01 21:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pale Peril
Hrm… looks like there is a limit to how many times you can quote in one post in these forums… o-O

I like this change and its seemingly an obviously do-able “little things” without too much work.

Also, I like many of the suggestions thus far made in this thread to add more to wrecks, though I would think making most of the those iterative additions would have to wait for further future releases, right? (Add to the whiteboard plz.)

For instance:

Sharps wrote:
What about MTUs?

Dunmer Orion wrote:
[...] Will it affect salvaging times?


I likey!

I don’t know if the salvaging algorithm was taking into account the wreck’s HP before this change, but I am too curious if this would increase salvage times.

Sharps wrote:
Also, can we probe down wrecks now please?

Edward James Reed wrote:
[...] Also +1 for probe-scan wrecks: if it's in space - it may be scanned. May
bring some interesting opportunities.


I’m into this too, if it has little effect on server/client performance.
Skyrider Deathknight
EliteExSuperCapitalFCJoeBarbarian
#99 - 2016-02-01 21:05:12 UTC
Can we get a disclaimer that this totally isn't anything to do with the dude recent smartbombing the highsec mothership wreck recently.
Pale Peril
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#100 - 2016-02-01 21:05:51 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
[...]
Can you also change so capital wrecks don't disappear when salvaged, and stay on grid until downtime ( maybe even longer) ?
This are also big changes , but...... why?
[b]
Because of this : http://i.imgur.com/UhHrWHj.jpg
A single image posted across the web will affect more people than the BR we get from zkill.
People that never played eve will ignore BR, but if he is slightly interested in spaceships, he will not ignore screenshot.
Trust me. After each capital battle, you will get tons of screenshots posted across the web.
They will be a free eve commercials.
Capital graveyards will be good place to generate short therm hot zones, many people will want to see them.
You put a lot of work in creating this wreck graphics, why are you allowing them to be instantly gone after the battle? [...]
Like this too, as long at it also doesn’t have much effect on server performance. Perhaps not much more persistent that after downtown (or less).

Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
[...] Wreck popping? You mean murdering all of the defenseless crew who may have survived the original encounter? Seems like popping any wreck should be a crime far worst than podding a capsuleer. It should bring concord for the lives of the hundreds or even thousands of baseliners you are murdering in cold blood! [...]


Yummy, yummy grimdarkness. I’m totally into the prospect adding potential low value “livestock” into the salvaging loot tables proportional to larger size wrecks if there is a lore reason for potential surviving crew/passengers.

And I image it's not a difficult change to make before the February release, eh? :Those Janitors obviously are in need of a new employer and would do well in my station hanger. :D