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[February] Wreck Hitpoint Rebalance

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KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#61 - 2016-02-01 16:53:07 UTC
So let's raise the return rate on high sec pirating. Null bloc's get their way yet again.
Edward James Reed
Doomheim
#62 - 2016-02-01 16:55:35 UTC
+1 for this change.

Also +1 for probe-scan wrecks: if it's in space - it may be scanned. May bring some interesting opportunities.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#63 - 2016-02-01 17:36:39 UTC
Danmal wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. There's a small change that's currently planned for our February release and we'd like to get your feedback.

Up until now, wrecks (other than those belonging to Ship Maintenance Array and X-Large Ship Maintenance Array starbase structures) have all had a uniform 500 hull hitpoints. This makes them very easy to destroy, with no difference between destroying a shuttle wreck and a titan wreck.

We've seen a few requests here and there to tweak this mechanic from players, and recently Endie from the CSM has brought the issue up with us and championed it. We've got a set of changes ready for the February release that should help bring wreck hitpoints into a better state.


The current planned numbers are:

Frigate, Rookie Ship, Shuttle, Small NPC: 700 hp
Destroyer: 1000 hp
Cruiser, Mining Barge, Medium NPC, Generic NPC: 1500 hp
Battlecruiser, Industrial: 2500 hp
Battleship, Large NPC, Officer NPC: 3500 hp
Carrier, Dread, Rorqual, Orca, Freighter: 15000 hp
Supercarrier, NPC Supercarrier: 25000 hp
Titan: 30000 hp

The CSM feedback we've received so far has been positive, and we'd like to hear what you all think.
Thanks!


I find this unnecessary. For player wrecks, the quick destruction of the wreck can be tactically important because they are warp-in points. Hence why reward slow/worse PVPers by giving them more time. Second, I am against applying this to NPC wrecks too. Some diligent PVErs destroy their wrecks in low/null so as to remain anonymous, which becomes a chore when they have a lot of hitpoints. Hence, there is at least as good an argument for not increasing their HP. I am not sure what the argument for increasing NPC wreck HP would be.

EDIT: Because of my first point, I suppose this to be the proposal from a group that's bad at PVP pushing their own agenda, am I right?

EDIT2: As I am getting madder about this, can you please start impeaching CSM members who clearly push their own agendas rather than the interests of the community. Thank you.




The value of a utility high with a salvager or a few salvage drones in bay just became a new thing and may have just given a new role of salvage ships in fleet ops. It will be interesting to see how this plays out as a change.

Personally I have little skin in the game as I don't destroy wrecks very often. But I like the idea that a wreck is harder to destroy the larger it is, seems very logical. Though in a game logic is not always the best game play given other mechanics and game play. So I am interested to see how this change plays out and not shoot the idea down outright.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#64 - 2016-02-01 17:36:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. There's a small change that's currently planned for our February release and we'd like to get your feedback.

Up until now, wrecks (other than those belonging to Ship Maintenance Array and X-Large Ship Maintenance Array starbase structures) have all had a uniform 500 hull hitpoints. This makes them very easy to destroy, with no difference between destroying a shuttle wreck and a titan wreck.

We've seen a few requests here and there to tweak this mechanic from players, and recently Endie from the CSM has brought the issue up with us and championed it. We've got a set of changes ready for the February release that should help bring wreck hitpoints into a better state.


The current planned numbers are:

Frigate, Rookie Ship, Shuttle, Small NPC: 700 hp
Destroyer: 1000 hp
Cruiser, Mining Barge, Medium NPC, Generic NPC: 1500 hp
Battlecruiser, Industrial: 2500 hp
Battleship, Large NPC, Officer NPC: 3500 hp
Carrier, Dread, Rorqual, Orca, Freighter: 15000 hp
Supercarrier, NPC Supercarrier: 25000 hp
Titan: 30000 hp

The CSM feedback we've received so far has been positive, and we'd like to hear what you all think.
Thanks!



Looks good. Ship it.

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Talassa Noran
Doomheim
#65 - 2016-02-01 17:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Talassa Noran
it makes sense, but it will just be abused so rather

-1
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2016-02-01 17:50:43 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Asinae Antaelis wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


The current planned numbers are:

Frigate, Rookie Ship, Shuttle, Small NPC: 700 hp
Destroyer: 1000 hp
Cruiser, Mining Barge, Medium NPC, Generic NPC: 1500 hp
Battlecruiser, Industrial: 2500 hp
[/b]

The CSM feedback we've received so far has been positive, and we'd like to hear what you all think.
Thanks!


Shouldn't this be proportionnal to average hull hitpoint? like 1/2 the ship's hull
Cause for frigs, the wreck would have more raw hp than the flying ship...


From RL perspective.
To sunk a ship today you need to punch hole in this hull, so big, you cannot remove water moving in.
In case of EVE armor and hull give you information how much damage you need to do before hole will be 'big enough' to do the job.

In both cases rest of the ship is mostly intact.


Do we really know what would happen to a ship in the case of an actual hull breach? Like how much the remains get damage during the pressure equalization between the inner of the ship and the void of space.
Kaoraku Shayiskhun
Simple Designs
#67 - 2016-02-01 17:54:09 UTC
Reality? When a small ship collition to a capital ship, and the smaller one not blown up? Yeah, that was a really needed REBALANCE, wrecks was pretty OP
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#68 - 2016-02-01 18:03:24 UTC
CCP, the issue of making ganking more profitable is one that needs addressing, I propose, as a way to complete this re-balance: Exploding freight containers. If my ship explodes, so does my freight container, along with all its contents. Make it have a volume that is about 70% of its own volume, as a penalty for using them (that is, you can use this freight container, but you will be carrying less cargo).

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Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2016-02-01 18:06:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Do we really know what would happen to a ship in the case of an actual hull breach? Like how much the remains get damage during the pressure equalization between the inner of the ship and the void of space.


The pressure difference isn't that big of a deal, it's roughly equivalent to the pressure at 10 meters depth in water.
Insidious
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2016-02-01 18:09:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Insidious
excellent idea


hell i would go further and let the capsuler escape be manual release

both the wreck hp increase and the pod escape would increase immersion and player interaction


counter point

on the flipside tactical warp ins to wrecks are still a thing
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#71 - 2016-02-01 18:17:09 UTC
This is a good change overall but does have possibly unintended consequences on the profitability of freighter ganking. The gankers are (broadly-speaking) protected by concord - the very mechanics they subvert! With bumpers and looters in npc corps, its hard to assault their valuable ships.

\I would like to see consequence-free bump tackling changed - you shouldn't be able to tackle in hisec without going suspect or criminal. Likewise, ships involved on looting from gank victims should not be protected by concord.

Still, wreck hp is a good change for the game.

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Dunmer Orion
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#72 - 2016-02-01 18:20:01 UTC
Good idea, makes sense to me. Will it affect salvaging times?

-DO
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2016-02-01 18:21:15 UTC
Lol. Go for it. This owns.

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Ruby Gnollo
#74 - 2016-02-01 18:35:37 UTC
Bjurn Akely wrote:
Scratching my head to understand what problem this change will fix. Or is it merely 'cosmetic'?


Maybe it's because some find too easy to deny loot even when loosing ground by shooting big wrecks
Chalithra Lathar
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#75 - 2016-02-01 18:52:56 UTC
#WreckLivesMatter
DirtyGibson Hand
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2016-02-01 18:53:27 UTC
This is a good post. Good job goodposter. Will you be the champion for scannable wrecks?

Sharps wrote:
What about MTUs?

Also, can we probe down wrecks now please?
Black Pedro
Mine.
#77 - 2016-02-01 18:55:27 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP, the issue of making ganking more profitable is one that needs addressing, I propose, as a way to complete this re-balance: Exploding freight containers. If my ship explodes, so does my freight container, along with all its contents. Make it have a volume that is about 70% of its own volume, as a penalty for using them (that is, you can use this freight container, but you will be carrying less cargo).
No, the game needs more conflict drivers not less. Removing the spoils of victory for out-maneuvering your opponent does not seem to be a good way to incentivize player interaction.

+1 for a good, minor change which should shake things up slightly and one that makes sense. Numbers seem fine.

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Why Do They Gank?
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#78 - 2016-02-01 19:06:45 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
MissBolyai wrote:
Stupid change

-1

It just became a group task instead. ;)

#AMT

Do we have a artymach fleet comp? or do I just bring it as a flagship wreck dunker?
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#79 - 2016-02-01 19:13:22 UTC
If there's nothing to stop this change, can you at least give us killmails for wrecks now?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2016-02-01 19:21:26 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
So let's raise the return rate on high sec pirating. Null bloc's get their way yet again.


Current chance of being ganked in a freighter stands at less than 0.1%.