EVE General Discussion

The usual definition of pay2win is buying an advantage you could not get without paying. Which is why the new EVE model is not pay2win, in a strict sense. You can stilll get to the same point, by waiting. And let us not forget that the veterans are already there right now. Due to EVE skill hard caps people who buy SP will not be better off than the veterans who already has most of all the skills divided on 3-4 alts.

My definition of pay2win is build on this article from IGN discussing free2play vs pay2win.

The interesting part from the IGN article:
" The much maligned ‘pay to win’ label in the West, where users can only really advance by handing over money, is pretty much a standard for distribution and financial gain in China. "

If you can show another definition that you did not make up yourself, I would love to see it.

Then it doesn't matter.

If I was to accept your definition of P2W, which I don't.


PLEX would be P2W.

A character from the bazaar would be P2W

A second account would be P2W.


Using your definition, how many accounts do you have. Have you paid to win?

There isn't really a solid definition, since it's simply a derogatory term for games that allow microtransactions, like they say on engadget, "The problem is that there is no agreed-upon definition of pay-to-win. "Convenience" items are a good case in point. Some folks don't mind them, while others point out that they can make your character more powerful in less time, depending on the system."

But consider games from companies like Zynga, like Farmville. These are pretty much all classed as pay to win games by most people, yet all (or at least most) of them can be played for free and you can advance without playing, albeit much much slower.

Also, going by the overly broad IGN definition you've given above, all paid games are pay to win, since you can't progress in the game unless you are able to play it, and you aren't able to play it (legally) without paying. For subscription MMOs, paying the subscription is a prerequisite for progression.

Of course though a newbie paying cash isn't going to suddenly be better than a veteran with several years of playtime, just like someone paying a few hundred dollars into Farmville won't suddenly have a bigger farm than a free to play player who's been playing for years. What they will have though is an advantage over other people starting at the same time who don't pay, and a closer to level playing field with veterans.

Yeah, I get that, you're only accepting it as pay to win if you can pay for an item which doesn't exist to anyone else, yet you've stated yourself that paying players will now be able to get more of an advantage that the previously available paid advantage. So effectively we agree on everything except the terminology, so let's simply call it "pay for advantage", and at the same time point out that most games called as "P2W" by the general public should also be reclassified as "pay for advantage".

One of the reasons most people were OK with the Bazaar, was due to it's limitations. You couldn't choose the name, had to have what you deemed acceptable in regards to the skill sheet and if someone took the time to look, had a I've bought this character post to indicate originality.

Now, not so much. In fact, not at all.

Like a lot of gaming terms they're supposed to distinguish between different types of games. Not always to be taken literally. Which does tend to cause a lot of debate over what the terms actually mean.


But if the game was already P2W, then we shouldn't be looking at a P2W reason for not adding sp packets. We should just be looking at will it benefit the game or not.

I love how when someone says it's the same as the bazaar, they seems to always qualify it with 'in a sense' or 'almost', or 'nearly' or 'except that'.

Another example.


I almost won the lottery once.

The limitations will be their cost and the declining benefit. But there should also be a point where they no longer work.

People talk about this like it is a pixel ship that should be balanced. It is not though. It is to increase the income of CCP, in a relatively harmless way imo. I am sure they have investors breathing down their necks after the last few years failed projects. They could have come up with something worse, or have closed the game for example.

You also don't balance income streams negatively. I understand your point, but have to say that your expectation for them to put restrictions on something they have to live from, is naive. I also don't see why they should.

I can buy tons of plexes, go to character bazaar, buy a titan pilot, go to sell forums, buy a titan and by Friday, I am flying titan after one week in EVE.