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Assault missile names

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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#61 - 2012-01-10 16:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Mars Theran wrote:
I hate to be picky, but isn't Trauma kind of a silly name.


Trauma is an emotional response to a terrible event like an accident, r**e or natural disaster. Reactions such as shock and denial are typical.

Sounds dead on if a Drake is actually killing you.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-01-10 16:43:47 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
I hate to be picky, but isn't Trauma kind of a silly name.


Trauma is an emotional response to a terrible event like an accident, r**e or natural disaster. Reactions such as shock and denial are typical.

Sounds dead on if a Drake is actually killing you.


Trauma is an injury caused by physical force.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#63 - 2012-01-10 16:48:44 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:

Trauma is an injury caused by physical force.


Are you absolutely sure they are using the pathology definition. As emotional damage lasts long after podding.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#64 - 2012-01-10 17:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP Lemur wrote:
CCP Gnauton is cleaning up lots of item names and reducing unneeded weird names. This should make it easier for people to figure out what does what and which is better in the great pile of meta items.

Sure, some people will moan about the loss of the unique names, but it makes no sense to have a new name for the same damage type for each missile type.


Uh, I TOTALLY Disagree.


Let's just drop all the "weird" names and just call them "Kinetic Rocket", "Thermal Rocket", etc? Why even BOTHER having a name if you're going to take that perspective and view point? Who needs some actual intrigue in a game like EVE. You know, it's not like after 8 years we've all gotten used to these names or anything.


I think these are pretty petty changes and inconsistent reasoning behind it. The names conveyed a sense of scale, not only of "damage type".


Thorn Rockets, Bloodclaw Light Missiles, Scourge Heavy Missile, Terror Assault Missile, Wrath Cruise Missile, Juggernaut Torpedo, Rift Citadel Cruise Missile, Rajas Citadel Torpedo

You know how much of a PAIN IN THE ASS it's going to be to find your "Mjolnir Rockets" under all 80 faction ammo types?

I think you're being pretty short sighted about this.

SEARCH MARKET BAR : Mjolnir (Expecting torpedos) and OMFGWTF ensues...


Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Dread Guristas Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Dread Guristas Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Dread Guristas Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Dread Guristas Mjolnir Light Missile
Dread Guristas Mjolnir Rocket
Dread Guristas Mjolnir Torpedo
Guristas Mjolnir Citadel Torpedo
Guristas Mjolnir Citadel Cruise Missile
Guristas Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Guristas Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Guristas Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Guristas Mjolnir Light Missile
Guristas Mjolnir Rocket
Guristas Mjolnir Torpedo
Mjolnir Citadel Torpedo
Mjolnir Citadel Cruise Missile
Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Mjolnir Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Mjolnir Javelin Rocket
Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Mjolnir Light Missile
Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Mjolnir Precision Light Missile
Mjolnir Precision Heavy Missile
Mjolnir Precision Cruise Missile
Mjolnir Rocket
Mjolnir Torpedo


--------


So now, if I want to find my EMP Torpedoes, instead of being able to type the the one name I know identifies the missile I am assaulted with another 100 missiles I DON'T want. Oh, and btw. It's at the BOTTOM of the list. Alphabetically.

But hey, as long as MJOLNIR means EMP, right?

How's this supposed to help again?

Where I am.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-01-10 17:13:53 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:

Trauma is an injury caused by physical force.


Are you absolutely sure they are using the pathology definition. As emotional damage lasts long after podding.


Yes I'm sure because Trauma is the name of the kinetic missiles. Kinetic damage is physical force.
Axl Borlara
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-01-10 17:14:33 UTC
Ok, so some of the names for various things need fixing.

Fine.

However...

CCP goes for bland, functional only names.
Players suggest ways of keeping the interesting parts while also making them more descriptive and functional.

Will CCP listen? Will they offer their opinions on what has been suggested?

Using arbitrary 'brand names' works and makes life in Eve far more interesting. It makes the game feel like a world, rather than a spreadsheet.
As mentioned already, ship names are fairly arbitrary and new subscribers* will need to take some time to learn them, or read the descriptions to work out what their role is. But everyone will agree that, for example, 'Wolf' is a much better name than 'Minmatar Improved Frigate 1'.

Another potential source of confusion:
Is an experimental MWD likely to break just when I need it?

Everyone at CCP should, if they haven't already, read the manual for the game Elite, from start to finish.
(available here: http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/archive/index.htm and http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/archive/a/a5050070.txt). I highly recommend it for all players too.

* it's obvious that a lot of recent changes are intended to make Eve simpler in order to attract new subscribers. Not necessarily a bad thing, except when it detracts from what defines Eve itself.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#67 - 2012-01-10 17:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
And yes, Trauma is a stupid name.

Adding to that bit.




Adding to the bit above, to find your "T2 Rockets" isn't easier.


Because you're going to search for "Mjolnir Rockets" expecting a full list, and you're going to get a partial list, because the market bar will NOT return the "Mjolnir Rage Rockets" because it's not in the search correctly.


When I go to the market to buy ammo, I go to the search bar and type in "Mjolnir", or "Thorn" and know that I will get EXACTLY what I want.


A list of all Kinetic Damage Rockets/EMP Torpedoes, etc.

I KNOW I will not find "ALL Torpedoes" by typing in "Torpedo", or ALL EMP Missiles by typing in "Mjolnir", and god forbid you make me type in "Trauma"...


"a body wound or shock produced by sudden physical injury, as from violence or accident."


So, you're telling me the missile is called after an injury? So it's an injured rocket? It's a traumatized rocket? Or are you saying it's "Trauma-Inducing"?

Perhaps I'll call it the "Trauma-Inducing Rocket of CCP". Cuz, I'm feeling pretty traumatized at the moment...

Where I am.
mkint
#68 - 2012-01-10 17:20:18 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
Minuseg wrote:
CCP Lemur wrote:
CCP Gnauton is cleaning up lots of item names and reducing unneeded weird names. This should make it easier for people to figure out what does what and which is better in the great pile of meta items.

Sure, some people will moan about the loss of the unique names, but it makes no sense to have a new name for the same damage type for each missile type.

It's not for people, it's for casual idiots from la2, wow, etc. EVE much more better without them. Evil


I'd like to counter your point and say that EVE offers enough complexity for everyone even without a totally random naming scheme. You can still call your missiles Piranha after the change and be all superior about it welcome your new targets with open arms.

EVE: Getting blander with every patch

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-01-10 17:27:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Bloodpetal wrote:

Because you're going to search for "Mjolnir Rockets" expecting a full list, and you're going to get a partial list, because the market bar will NOT return the "Mjolnir Rage Rockets" because it's not in the search correctly.


Yes the market search function could be a little bit smarter and search for keywords instead of an exact string, so that we can just type "rage rocket" to see all types of rage rockets or "mjolnir rocket" to see all types of Mjolnir rockets.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#70 - 2012-01-10 17:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP Lemur wrote:

I'd like to counter your point and say that EVE offers enough complexity for everyone even without a totally random naming scheme. You can still call your missiles Piranha after the change and be all superior about it welcome your new targets with open arms.


Erm.


No, they won't call them Piranhas because CCP changed the name.

There is absolutely no reason all the missiles should have the same "NAME".

Otherwise let's just call our children "JEFF".

Quote:
Noun:
A word or set of words by which a person, animal, place, or thing is known, addressed, or referred to.


The appropriate thing to do is to not not name all the different missiles the same name.



Because, SURPRISE, it's easier to identify them if they have DIFFERENT NAMES. If you want to make it so people know what DAMAGE type they are then they should have the Identfier ON the missile.


All missiles are unique in quality and size. EMP L, M and S all share the same qualities at DIFFERENT sizes.


Rockets are not simply "Smaller Torpedos" They act VERY VERY differently.

EMP M and EMP L basically have the same critical statistics (50% range reduction, more damage, same damage profile, fits in a bigger gun.)


Thorn Rockets and Juggernaut Torpedos share absolutely no critical stats in common from speed, range, lifetime, etc.

Hence, they SHOULD be differently designated.


What YOU are doing makes no sense...
"for everyone even without a totally random naming scheme. "

Uh, Why is your name Lemur? Why is that dudes name Joseph? Uh, seems PRETTY random, doesn't it? Well, it doesn't matter - because that's their NAME regardless. We call iPhones an iPhone because they are DIFFERENT material objects with the same critical qualities to associate them together.

Yet, we don't call an iPhone the same thing as a 'Droid, do we? Critical stats are ALMOST identical, they do ALMOST the identical jobs, yet we have different names for them. That doesn't make them RANDOM naming schemes.

Mjolnir Torpedos and Mjolnir Rockets should not have the same NAME. They should have a damage type designator attached to them if you are so concerned about this naming scheme making it confusing to look for similar damage types.

i.e. Thorn EM Rocket

So if I want an EM rocket, I type in EM Rocket, and now I can easily find all EM Rockets without a problem.

Foxfire Thermal Rockets, etc.


Instead of adding granularity and ease of function, you're removing it.


You're also making ALL missiles SEEM to be the same, which they are NOT.


At the VERY LEAST have different names for Missiles and Unguided Missiles.

So Scourge is for all Unguided Missiles (Rockets, Torps) and Wrath is for all Missiles (Heavy, Cruise, etc.)




Not to mention the stealth changes to the meta Afterburners and meta Microwarpdrives broke a LOT of killboards' ability to read killmails by removing a simple 'I' from the naming scheme.

Thanks for the notice.

Where I am.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#71 - 2012-01-10 17:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Selar Nox wrote:
Baneken wrote:
I liked the old names better because they sounded BRAND NAMES which is a very caldari thing to name something. Cry

CCP killing RP one by one.

This and...


Bienator II wrote:
btw not only missiles have changed.

afterburner/MWDs are now:
limited << upgraded << experimental

Boooring. And not very creative. After all New Eden is mostly run by Mega Corporations which want to sell their 'products'. And such anonymous and shared names descriptions definitely won't help in this attempt.
Or why did you call your product 'EVE Online' instead of 'Massive-Multiplayer-Space-Simulator' or 'Ultima Online in Space'? Exactly, you want to have a striking name everyone can remember & associate with your product and on the other hand you have to separate from your competitors. Why should this be different in New Eden??

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact to determine the effectiveness of these modules just by name. But please add some flavour to it. Best way would probably be to use Kerc Kasha's and Scrapyard Bob's suggestion to combine new and old names, like:

Instead of:
"Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive" -> "Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I"
more like this:
"Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive"

This way we can keep the uniqueness as well as the Information where to place the module in the meta level hierarchy (as all categories(1mn-100mn) will follow the keyword hierarchy "limited << upgraded << experimental")

Where names get too long, perhaps take parts out of it or replace it. But the result should also be unique.



Scrapyard Bob wrote:
+1 for including the damage type in the name
-5 for removing the uniqueness of the names altogether

Ideally, they would all follow something along the lines of the existing patterns, like Kerc suggested. Personally, I prefer straight damage type names with the flavor name in quotes after it.

(damage type name) (nickname) (category)

Thermal 'Foxfire' Unguided Rocket
EM 'Gremlin' Unguided Rocket

[...]

It's boring to say "hey, pick me up some Explosive Light Missiles", it's much nicer to say "pick me up some Piranhas". For those in the know, it's a nice short-hand for saying that if you want 'Doom's that you're looking for capital sized explosive torpedo ammo. Yes, the damage type needs to be in the new names, but no you should not be doing away with the old unique names.

Making all the names the same would be like changing all the capital ship types to: Amarr Dreadnaught, Amarr Carrier, Amarr Super Carrier, Amarr Titan - which is rather bland and boring.

Plus, for the old bittervets who have stuck around, we know the old unique names. It's how we tend to search for things on the market. So those names need to stay as part of the new names.

This. With two exceptions:

1) I would prefer to reorder the naming scheme like this:

(damage type name) (nickname) (category)
e.g. 'Foxfire' Thermal Rocket

2) Use this opportunity and get rid of all the references to guided/unguided as in EVE all missiles are guided. Otherwise they would just go in a straight path.
(Includes renaming of rockets and the changing the name & description of the skill Guided Missile Precision. Perhaps to Long Range Missile Precision or something similar, to show only the long range variants of each missile-pair is affected)


To come to the inevitable RL-reference: Twisted
No one calls one of the most famous A2A-Missile Air-Intercept-Missile-9-with-explosive/kinetic-warhead. It's name is 'Sidewinder'. Period. And it's larger "cousins" only share the technical part of it's name and have their own nicknames, eg. AIM-7 'Sparrow'.


Or this is the oppertunity to change all the descriptions from smart warheads to dumb warheads since the 'guided' missils use computerize smart warheads to direct the detionation where at dumb warheads just explode with extra stuff normally eaten up by the computer.

Also we got like 20 different versions of the sparrow it gets confusing sometimes, hell sometimes depending where its mounted changes the damn nick name. Evolved Sea Sparrows oh my. What next Advanced evolved Sea Sparrows >< and another thing in aviation ordinace they do back hand you for calling it by its nickname for the above reason alone.

Just to prove a point.

F/A-18s A-G have various nicknames

Baby Hornet
Hornet
Super Hornet
Grizzly
Rhino
Growler

Oddly enough one variant has four of these names and if you look at it from anther angle it has 5. So what gives?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#72 - 2012-01-10 18:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Im quoting from another thread but see if you can pass this quiz.


Nova Fox wrote:


Okay Pop Quiz Time
I have an alphabetized list of all the warheads in eve,
Name thier damage types from memory alone

Anaconda
Asp
Bane
Bloodclaw
Cataclysm
Catastrophe
Cobra
Concussion
Devastator
Doom
Dragon
Electron
Eradicator
Exterminator
Firefly
Flameburst
Foxfire
Fulmination
Ghost
Gremlin
Havoc
Hellfire
Hellhound
Hunter
Hydra
Inferno
Juggernaut
Mjolnir
Obliterator
Paradise
Piranha
Phalanx
Phoenix
Purgatory
Python
Rajas
Rift
Sabertooth
Scorch
Scourge
Seeker
Serpent
Shrapnel
Sol
Stalker
Terror
Thor
Thorn
Thunar
Thunderbolt
Torrent
Widowmaker
Wrath

Post Patch of when the name changes go though.

Okay Pop Quiz Time
I have an alphabetized list of all the warheads in eve post name change patch
Name thier damage types from memory alone

Inferno
Mjolnir
Nova
Truama



Also so much better to say stuff over chat like

Before Patch:

Shipscan Scout>> Thier dreads are carrying sol torpeodes
Defending Capship pilot about to undock in 10 seconds counter >> What damage type is that?
Shipscan Scout>> .... I dont remember I think EM.
Defending Capship pilot >> *Fits EM resistances dies much more horribly than expected.

After Patch:

Shinpscan Scout>> Dread with infernos inbound!
Defending Capship pilot >> Right on getting my fireproof suit. *Fits Thermal resistances dies not as horrible.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#73 - 2012-01-10 18:06:32 UTC
Still I would like to have 4 names for the unguided missiles

like

Hellfire
Thor
Bane
Wrath

Just to show there are two kinds of missiles at least. If we are lucky we should give FOFs thier own as well.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-01-10 19:28:20 UTC
Trauma??!! Seriously?

Now tell me that the "Kinetic Armor Hardener II" will be renamed to "Band Aid Hardener II" and make me be happy [please don't].

If you are going to go with trauma, have you considered "bruise", "black eye", "contusion"?

Please CCP, review this name.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#75 - 2012-01-10 20:35:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
This goes back to the why is explosive damage not em therm and kinetic arguments at that point.

Also why do kinetic missiles explode they should slam into targets not explode on them.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-01-10 20:36:20 UTC
It sure feels odd to load trauma rockets instead of thorn rockets.

I'm not sure if I like this change or if it's just the change that's making me uncomfortable. Anyway the naming doesn't make any sense. When every missile had a unique name it was logical, just like in today's world with names such as TOW, Sea Sparrow and whatever. Developers name their products, nothing special here.

The new system here is a bit odd as the trauma missile series is not made by a single entity but minmatar (light & cruise), caldari (heavy) and unspecified (the rest). The kinetic missiles are just called trauma for no specific reason. The same goes for the rest of the missiles. You might just as well use the "Heavy kinetic missile" format. Or better still the "Kinetic "Scourge" Heavy missile" mentioned above.

BTW the FOF names have not changed yet. Are they under work or does that mean not even the devs use FOFs? Lol

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#77 - 2012-01-10 20:40:27 UTC
I will point out the fallacy of using real world as an example becuase the 'names' are just there for civillians to use the new naming scheme is actually alot closer to something the miltiary would do.



Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#78 - 2012-01-10 20:48:03 UTC
Inferno
INcidenary Fueled Extended Reactive Noxium Oxide

Mjolnir
Massive JOlt Linear Narrowband IRradiator

Nova
NOcxium Vaporizing Apature

Truama
Terminal RUn ArMAment

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#79 - 2012-01-10 20:50:43 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
I hate to be picky, but isn't Trauma kind of a silly name.


Trauma is an emotional response to a terrible event like an accident, r**e or natural disaster. Reactions such as shock and denial are typical.

Sounds dead on if a Drake is actually killing you.


Blunt force Truama :P

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-01-10 20:57:02 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Inferno
INcidenary Fueled Extended Reactive Noxium Oxide

Mjolnir
Massive JOlt Linear Narrowband IRradiator

Nova
NOcxium Vaporizing Apature

Truama
Terminal RUn ArMAment



Well if something like this is added to the missile descriptions I have no further problem with it. It's just that as it is now the naming scheme just looks odd to me.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.