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Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game?

First post
Author
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-01-30 01:59:13 UTC
I relish the bitter vet tears. Long live the scrubs!

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Avvy
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-01-30 02:03:47 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
ISD please lock redundant discussion.



What's redundant about it?

There's a thread about killing players that buy sp packets (sure they meant characters).

Plus a thread speculating about how much sp packets will cost.


Neither of those really address the opening post of this thread. Although of course this thread also involve some degree of speculation.

If you think a thread is redundant, there's nobody forcing you to read it.
Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-01-30 02:14:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Trader20
I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized. Vets will still be vets and newbies will still be newbies just with the potential to get more sp faster.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-01-30 02:15:33 UTC
Trader20 wrote:
I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized.

all here

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2016-01-30 02:17:03 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Trader20 wrote:
I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized.

all here


I thought you weren't reading this thread lol
Jacques d'Orleans
#26 - 2016-01-30 02:23:51 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left.

There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game.

The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded.

Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.



Obligatory Your stuff? Have it? Can I? remark.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-01-30 02:44:14 UTC
There's no point in speculating. I intend to wait and see what the outcomes are. If the result is EVE becoming not EVE anymore, I'll find something else to put my money into.

For the record, I have no intention of subbing a second account ever. Never have, never will, because the way I see it, if the game can't be played with a single account, then it's probably a scam that claims to cost $15 a month but actually costs $30. Or more.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2016-01-30 03:08:57 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
There's no point in speculating. I intend to wait and see what the outcomes are. If the result is EVE becoming not EVE anymore, I'll find something else to put my money into.

For the record, I have no intention of subbing a second account ever. Never have, never will, because the way I see it, if the game can't be played with a single account, then it's probably a scam that claims to cost $15 a month but actually costs $30. Or more.


Good point, if Eve ever made it necessary to own more then one account then that would be a sad day. Some play styles are enhanced with a second account but from what I've seen, a person can be as effective by flying with a gang.

That's the pvp side of things so I'm not going to act like I know if multiple accounts for trading/hauling/etc or required. If I get tired of pvp and want to dabble in some hauling or trading for example and I want a unique personal hauler/trader then I have the option to jump right into it without waiting for skill time. Or if you don't care about past history or name then you can buy a char.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#29 - 2016-01-30 05:00:14 UTC
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left.

There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game.

The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded.

Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.



Obligatory Your stuff? Have it? Can I? remark.

Time for you to go enroll back into that English class you dropped out of.
Alessienne Ellecon
Doomheim
#30 - 2016-01-30 05:27:24 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic
That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it.

No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads.


My thoughts exactly. If you abuse skillgoo as a pay2win mechanic, you probably have more isk than sense and you thoroughly deserve the repeated asskickings coming your way. Skill injectors are intended first and foremost as a means of reassigning skill points and breaking down unused toons into something useful. I welcome to opportunity to refine this toon into a lean, mean pvp machine and let my industrial alt do the rest.

"CONCORD are the space cops. If you attack someone in a high-security solar system, CONCORD will commit police brutality." - Encyclopedia Dramatica

If EVE is a PvP game, then Anti-Ganking is emergent gameplay.

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#31 - 2016-01-30 05:41:20 UTC
Alessienne Ellecon wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic
That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it.

No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads.


My thoughts exactly. If you abuse skillgoo as a pay2win mechanic, you probably have more isk than sense and you thoroughly deserve the repeated asskickings coming your way. Skill injectors are intended first and foremost as a means of reassigning skill points and breaking down unused toons into something useful. I welcome to opportunity to refine this toon into a lean, mean pvp machine and let my industrial alt do the rest.

I agree.

There is nothing wrong with using the SP Extractors to extract unwanted skills and the injectors to inject the skills elsewhere but this could have been done by simply adding a skill respecification feature or item similar to a char resculpt.

But instead CCP decides to go all out with adding pay2win to Eve. Maybe they decided that Eve's time is nearing it's end and have decided that now's the time to nickle and dime every last cent out of this game while they still can.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2016-01-30 07:19:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Trader20 wrote:
I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized. Vets will still be vets and newbies will still be newbies just with the potential to get more sp faster.


That is just it, when you change a complex and dynamic system the problems are often not readily apparent a priori.

About 18 years ago, I was in my second interview for a job. It was at a utility, that had just deregulated. I asked a rather impertinent question, "How do you know the market wont be manipulated?" The reply was, "Oh, well some game theorists looked at it." I thought, "Hmmmm, yeah, let me see, repeated game...no end stage, so infinitely repeated game at that....so yeah the folk theorum, almost surely they missed something." I replied, "They missed something." A couple of years later I was posting graphs outside my cubicle with prices as high as $1,600/MW, and everyone was shocked. How could this have gone so horribly, horribly wrong?

Or lets put it in game terms.....

Did CCP foresee the problem with nano-ships? Nope.
Did CCP foresee the problem with tracking titans? Nope.
Did CCP foresee the problem with drone assist? Nope.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#33 - 2016-01-30 08:11:01 UTC
Did Buying Characters(Char Bazar) Ruin The Game?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

xpl0de
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-01-30 09:03:48 UTC
I honestly feel proud of having worked my SP up. All these nooblets wont experience that joy of growing their characters over the years. But w.e, its going to be a noob harvest for us

-10.0 since the Womb

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#35 - 2016-01-30 09:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
Still weighing in my head the possible pros and cons of this.
I do intend to take advantage of it myself, to redistribute some skills I never use into skills I will use.

I'm looking forward to it, for better or for worse, because it's going to give the instant gratification players all the rope they need to hang themselves. PLEX bridged the ISK gap between newer and older players, allowing them to score the shiny toys they could never afford otherwise early in the game. Now the dreaded and mythical 'SP Wall' is going to become climbable, for a meager fee of course.
There's no way this could possibly go wrong, right?
I mean they're finally getting what they want?

*dons lobster bib*

I personally cannot wait to see capsuleers who are less than two weeks old flying around in faction battleships, sporting their green and purple fits, derping around high sec mission hubs.
The thought of it has me positively salivating.

Something something Charles Darwin.... Something something PT Barnum.

But yeah. Time will tell.
My big fear is the insatiable appetite of the many who crave even more concessions complaining that this is still not enough.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#36 - 2016-01-30 10:50:48 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic
That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it.

No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads.
Which is exactly the same as any other P2W game. Pay 2 win doesn't literally mean that you pay and win, it's simply paying for an advantage over those who have not paid. An amazing free player will still win over a terrible paid player. Two players at the same level of ability however, the paid player will have a distinct advantage.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Avvy
Doomheim
#37 - 2016-01-30 11:13:08 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic
That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it.

No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads.
Which is exactly the same as any other P2W game. Pay 2 win doesn't literally mean that you pay and win, it's simply paying for an advantage over those who have not paid. An amazing free player will still win over a terrible paid player. Two players at the same level of ability however, the paid player will have a distinct advantage.




This is an extract from the Urban Dictionary

'Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced...'


I read that as gear that is better than the normal in-game gear.

Make better items than anyone else, being able to manufacture items not normally available which would be more desirable than the normal items that can be manufactured.

So if that is the case then sp packets are not P2W but are an advantage to those that can afford them and they certainly won't put the game out of balance.
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
#38 - 2016-01-30 11:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rovinia
No it won't ruin the game. The Character-Bazzar does essentially the same for years and i bet many of the Vets crying about the new mechanic have used it because they didn't have the patience to train their Titan or other Capital alts. And Eve didn't die because of it. That whole discussion gets more and more hypocritical.

Doesn't mean i'm a fan of the Skillpoint Transfer (nor from the Character Bazzar). The current system won't help new players much (and they should be the target group) because i asume the prices of the Boosters will be too high for them to purchause if you don't have a sponsor.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-01-30 11:37:52 UTC
Rovinia wrote:
No it won't ruin the game. The Character-Bazzar does essentially the same for years and i bet many of the Vets crying about the new mechanic have used it because they didn't have the patience to train their Titan or other Capital alts. And Eve didn't die because of it. That whole discussion gets more and more hypocritical.

Doesn't mean i'm a fan of the Skillpoint Transfer (nor from the Character Bazzar). The current system won't help new players much (and they should be the target group) because i asume the prices of the Boosters will be too high for them to purchause if you don't have a sponsor.


Encourages people to buy plex whicb creates more supply of plex, in turn brings the price of plex down which people keep complaining about also

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Avvy
Doomheim
#40 - 2016-01-30 11:39:31 UTC
Rovinia wrote:
No it won't ruin the game. The Character-Bazzar does essentially the same for years and i bet many of the Vets crying about the new mechanic have used it because they didn't have the patience to train their Titan or other Capital alts. And Eve didn't die because of it. That whole discussion gets more and more hypocritical.

Doesn't mean i'm a fan of the Skillpoint Transfer (nor from the Character Bazzar). The current system won't help new players much (and they should be the target group) because i asume the prices of the Boosters will be too high for them to purchause if you don't have a sponsor.



I think the affordability is one of the reasons low sp characters get the most out of them.