These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Tibus Heth. Great Caldari Hero ? Or, Greatest Caldari Hero ?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#181 - 2016-01-26 06:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Makoto Priano wrote:
As is unsurprising, Tuulinen-haan remains an asset to the state, in this case more for his ability to articulate our shared interests than his considerable combat capability.

Makoto, you are a dishonored liar that should not be called Caldari.
You have shown yourself that you don't have honor like Caldari here ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560 )
Stop pretending being one of us, scum.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James, one of these days the Federation will lay aside the stolen jewel of Caldari Prime and find that it affects them very little to almost not at all. Will you all be surprised, do you think, when the Caldari State has no further business against you and a strong urge to move on?

There is, literally, nothing else that you have which the State wants. We have all the resources we could possibly need and plenty of room to expand away from the direction of our shared borders. We have no other ideological, political or religious need to strive against you and, in fact, many of us find individual Gallente perfectly charming fellows. We have a history of being able to cooperate in business and in research and about the only venture I would suggest against would be joint colonisation projects.

It's not like we lack for other enemies, after all. You have the Amarr, Serpentis and Angel Cartel. We have the Gurista. Both of us could concentrate more on the Sansha issue. The Drifters are a potential problem of vast scale.

I will strongly disagree with this, Tuulinen-haan.

Tibus Heth has already made a mistake and stopped the advance into Federation territory after he has liberated Caldari Prime. Gallente signed the treaty in YC110 and they did already pass the planet completely to our State.

Yet it didn't stop gallente in YC115 to attempt to occupy it once again with their atrocious operation called Operation Highlander.

It clearly shows that gallente must not be trusted, and just a document from them that they pass the planet to us completely won't be enough. The Federation must be stopped and disarmed to prevent their further backstabbing. We must keep fighting them until we render them unable to invade into any of our worlds.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#182 - 2016-01-26 07:10:05 UTC
No matter how long I spend in an opiate sex coma under a pile of lycanthropic Sebbies, I can rely on the good doctor to be there with something worth reading upon waking up. Put me down for "Greatest Caldari Hero," darling, because... well, I have no specific example; but as I recall, Diana was keen on The Leader and it is best when Diana is in a good mood.

Before the aforementioned opiate sex coma - I do hope that isn't supposed to be comma - I recall that The Leader's vessel was ambushed by Nation. Did anything ever come of that? What is the trending flavor of peril? Serpentis? Damn. What did Mummy click on, exactly? Serpents? I'm fond of the Serpentis. They make very good sex opiates.

By the Black Goat's Thousand Young, I failed to give Anya her Redeemer back! Bloody hell, where... oh, that's going to be a headache. I remember, now, I clicked on something about getting rid of these useless ******* planetary infrastructure primitives clogging up my synaptic filaments. I'm too old for clogged filaments, but I seem to have come out of it a bit early for that.
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#183 - 2016-01-26 13:17:50 UTC
Welcome back Gosa darling. Hugs and Kisses!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#184 - 2016-01-26 17:26:33 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
It clearly shows that gallente must not be trusted, and just a document from them that they pass the planet to us completely won't be enough. The Federation must be stopped and disarmed to prevent their further backstabbing. We must keep fighting them until we render them unable to invade into any of our worlds.


We cannot, in good faith, ask for anything that is not ours and which is not necessary for the security of the State. We don't need our capital to be on the Homeworld. We don't need to control the space around Home. We don't need to own the space between New Caldari Prime and Home. All we need is unfettered access to Home for our people and control over the planet itself.

Anything else is expansionism by conquest - expressly against the wishes of Cold Wind and the Way itself.

I believe it's advisable that we at least be at peace with the Federation. Let the expansionist powers of the Cluster intrigue and fight amongst themselves. Let those of us interested in growth, trade and industry see to our own worlds. I believe that there is a big difference between self-defence or even deterrence and attacking people because of inanities like ideological differences.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#185 - 2016-01-26 18:17:33 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
I can rely on the good doctor to be there with something worth reading upon waking up.


I have written several great threads in recent days.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#186 - 2016-01-26 18:51:00 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

There is, literally, nothing else that you have which the State wants. We have all the resources we could possibly need and plenty of room to expand away from the direction of our shared borders.


How quickly it is forgotten that after centuries of peace between our people it was massive economic depression in the State that precipitated the current war. A depression brought on purely by Megacorporate corruption that the Gallente offered our hand in brotherhood to help the Caldari lift themselves out of.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#187 - 2016-01-26 19:02:44 UTC
Vero, usually, a Nyx being rammed into a station is not considered a 'hand in brotherhood,' in all fairness.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#188 - 2016-01-26 19:30:48 UTC
By all the gods, you really know how to prove James right with the victimhood complex.

I was obviously referring to the economic aid package offered by President Fioritain and "heroically" disdained by Heth in favor of starting a war.

Another obvious rebuttal to Pieter's "you have nothing we want" bit would be the subsequent invasion of Placid and Essence by the Provists. They suffered what, two years of occupation before FDU forces finally managed to turn the tide of the Empyrean War? For people who want nothing, the Caldari seem to take an awful lot. Only when you were faced with overwhelming military defeat was there willingness to negotiate.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#189 - 2016-01-26 19:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Selective memory, Vero. That economic summit was in fact praised by Heth, uncharacteristically. Indeed, Gariushi-haan later stated he intended to hold Heth to the peace process. And we all know what followed.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#190 - 2016-01-26 19:42:05 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
It clearly shows that gallente must not be trusted, and just a document from them that they pass the planet to us completely won't be enough. The Federation must be stopped and disarmed to prevent their further backstabbing. We must keep fighting them until we render them unable to invade into any of our worlds.


We cannot, in good faith, ask for anything that is not ours and which is not necessary for the security of the State. We don't need our capital to be on the Homeworld. We don't need to control the space around Home. We don't need to own the space between New Caldari Prime and Home. All we need is unfettered access to Home for our people and control over the planet itself.

Anything else is expansionism by conquest - expressly against the wishes of Cold Wind and the Way itself.

I believe it's advisable that we at least be at peace with the Federation. Let the expansionist powers of the Cluster intrigue and fight amongst themselves. Let those of us interested in growth, trade and industry see to our own worlds. I believe that there is a big difference between self-defence or even deterrence and attacking people because of inanities like ideological differences.

I cannot agree with it. Without expansion Raata empire wouldn't be forged in the first place.

But I agree that we don't need actually Federation space, we need just our homeworld. It's the thing, that we can't have it without gallente threatening it. Would we kick federal swines again from our home by force, or gallente would sign a treaty, they will try it again. They have shown to us already they can't be trusted. The problem has arisen over 200 years ago when the Federation was just founded. Our ancestors were forced to sign that treaty and with this our homeworld became trapped inside Federal territory. We need to "unclench" gallenteans claws from around our planet, would it be by force or diplomacy (in which I obviously don't believe anymore after talks with gallentes, yet leave it as an option).

To unclench these claws and release our homeworld you need to remove something that is holding these claws together. The central point, the alpha and omega. The document, that started all this. The Federation Charter.

And if they don't want to cancel this treaty themselves, we shall destroy it ourselves, as we can, with fire and steel. You see, Mr. Tuulinen, Cold Wind is just one of the Winds and Cold Wind doesn't dictate the Way. This time we all should follow the Wind of the Storm. It is time to show real Caldari spirit to gallentean swines. We can show them what we were forged of. And we can show them what we are capable of. We shall sweep through their defences with the Wind and leave nothing but ruins behind. For it they can't stop trying to occupy our planet, WE WILL FORCE THEM.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#191 - 2016-01-26 19:46:29 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
By all the gods, you really know how to prove James right with the victimhood complex.

I was obviously referring to the economic aid package offered by President Fioritain and "heroically" disdained by Heth in favor of starting a war.

Another obvious rebuttal to Pieter's "you have nothing we want" bit would be the subsequent invasion of Placid and Essence by the Provists. They suffered what, two years of occupation before FDU forces finally managed to turn the tide of the Empyrean War? For people who want nothing, the Caldari seem to take an awful lot. Only when you were faced with overwhelming military defeat was there willingness to negotiate.


Are you seriously referring to the Empyrean War as if it were some sort of usual war of conquest? We went into Placid and Essence because you went into Black Rise - and it is your own leaders who put Placid and Essence up for grabs in the first place, just as it is our leaders who put Black Rise up for grabs.

Again. Heth is gone. The provists are gone. Negotiations are underway and if I don't take your words as the damning proof you intend them to be, I'll notice you're not in a hurry to quit Black Rise, either. But that's the Federation all over, no?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#192 - 2016-01-26 21:03:04 UTC
Hey, I have brownies! I'll share them if we can stop arguing.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#193 - 2016-01-26 21:11:37 UTC
Admiral Noir showed the true feelings of the Gallente towards us when he flew his ship deliberately into Ishukone station. With the sole purpose of destroying the economic summit , the chance of our two nations working together , having closer and better relations.

Whether Admiral Noir was working solely alone , or was part of a political plot by the Federation hardliners, nobody knows. The official story was he was working alone.

The real political power in the Federation , is still political hardliners , and lets be charitable and say , they dont like us !
We shouldnt expect them to be doing us favours anytime soon.

If we want to bring an end to the occupation of our homeworld again, we may have to resort to taking it again by force.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#194 - 2016-01-26 21:17:17 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
Admiral Noir showed the true feelings of the Gallente towards us when he flew his ship deliberately into Ishukone station. With the sole purpose of destroying the economic summit , the chance of our two nations working together , having closer and better relations.

Whether Admiral Noir was working solely alone , or was part of a political plot by the Federation hardliners, nobody knows. The official story was he was working alone.

The real political power in the Federation , is still political hardliners , and lets be charitable and say , they dont like us !
We shouldnt expect them to be doing us favours anytime soon.

If we want to bring an end to the occupation of our homeworld again, we may have to resort to taking it again by force.


"A couple of people on that side of the fence don't like us! Instead of rolling with the majority who are trying to work this out peaceful like, we should start trying to kill them all!"


This is why this hasn't been resolved yet.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Marceline Ravenstar
Doomheim
#195 - 2016-01-26 22:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Marceline Ravenstar
[(removed after more thorough thinking if this contributes anything to the discussion))
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#196 - 2016-01-26 22:50:41 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Hey, I have brownies! I'll share them if we can stop arguing.

In order to stop arguing you have to admit that Tibus Heth was the Greatest Caldari Hero.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#197 - 2016-01-26 22:51:45 UTC
Marceline Ravenstar wrote:
[(removed after more thorough thinking if this contributes anything to the discussion))


((Likewise redacted))

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#198 - 2016-01-26 23:07:16 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Hey, I have brownies! I'll share them if we can stop arguing.

I'm clearly not arguing, can I have one?

And Heth was the greatest caldari hero..... Coming from someone who could only name a few and really doesn't have a place discussing Caldari history/ heros. Can the arguing stop now?
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#199 - 2016-01-26 23:33:18 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
It clearly shows that gallente must not be trusted, and just a document from them that they pass the planet to us completely won't be enough. The Federation must be stopped and disarmed to prevent their further backstabbing. We must keep fighting them until we render them unable to invade into any of our worlds.


We cannot, in good faith, ask for anything that is not ours and which is not necessary for the security of the State. We don't need our capital to be on the Homeworld. We don't need to control the space around Home. We don't need to own the space between New Caldari Prime and Home. All we need is unfettered access to Home for our people and control over the planet itself.

Anything else is expansionism by conquest - expressly against the wishes of Cold Wind and the Way itself.

I believe it's advisable that we at least be at peace with the Federation. Let the expansionist powers of the Cluster intrigue and fight amongst themselves. Let those of us interested in growth, trade and industry see to our own worlds. I believe that there is a big difference between self-defence or even deterrence and attacking people because of inanities like ideological differences.

Well said.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#200 - 2016-01-26 23:47:44 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
It clearly shows that gallente must not be trusted, and just a document from them that they pass the planet to us completely won't be enough. The Federation must be stopped and disarmed to prevent their further backstabbing. We must keep fighting them until we render them unable to invade into any of our worlds.


We cannot, in good faith, ask for anything that is not ours and which is not necessary for the security of the State. We don't need our capital to be on the Homeworld. We don't need to control the space around Home. We don't need to own the space between New Caldari Prime and Home. All we need is unfettered access to Home for our people and control over the planet itself.

Anything else is expansionism by conquest - expressly against the wishes of Cold Wind and the Way itself.

I believe it's advisable that we at least be at peace with the Federation. Let the expansionist powers of the Cluster intrigue and fight amongst themselves. Let those of us interested in growth, trade and industry see to our own worlds. I believe that there is a big difference between self-defence or even deterrence and attacking people because of inanities like ideological differences.

Well said.


You do believe , that the continued occuaption of Caldari Prime is necessary for the Federation James ? I believe that is your stance on the situation James.