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PI extraction amounts question
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Ashes Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-01-22 13:17:33 UTC
Recently setting up a new PI chain I noticed something I don't quite understand.

In this picture you can see that the extraction product amount (which dictates load on a link) is significantly greater than the actual extraction output amount.

This particular planet was tight on powergrid and because of that i was forced to remove a basic facility to upgrade the link between extractor and spaceport. This creating some inefficiency in that I wouldn't be able to process all of the raw material into its tier 1 equivalent.

So why are these numbers different? I should note that none of the cycles output amount come close to that product amount.
vr0p
Non-Aligned Stellar Trading
#2 - 2016-01-22 15:16:01 UTC
The rate of resource extraction changes with every cycle. Did you notice the logarithmic curve in the extractor window? Or am I misunderstanding your question entirely...
Ashes Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-01-22 20:28:00 UTC
New image

Essentially what I'm trying to figure out is the correlation between the red cycle outputs and the total products output (green). Since the green output amount determined that i needed to upgrade the link. 31249 (blue) apparently being the max amount of product that could be carried on an non-upgraded link.

The cycle times are 15 minutes and you can see that no individual cycle goes above 22,500 (yellow).

The reason for trying to figure out the correlation is to try and achieve that last bit of efficiency so that i have no raw material left at the end of the extraction cycles.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-01-22 23:10:41 UTC
Ashes Itinen wrote:


The reason for trying to figure out the correlation is to try and achieve that last bit of efficiency so that i have no raw material left at the end of the extraction cycles.


Uh... why?

Extract everything you can and buffer it in storage/launchpad. It will get processed eventually.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Ashes Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-01-23 04:47:19 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Ashes Itinen wrote:


The reason for trying to figure out the correlation is to try and achieve that last bit of efficiency so that i have no raw material left at the end of the extraction cycles.


Uh... why?

Extract everything you can and buffer it in storage/launchpad. It will get processed eventually.



Maximizing efficiency/outputs to processing amount will create greater profits. Your "will get processed eventually" is not really true. If you extract 66,000 units in a set of cycles but can only process 60,000 in the same time period you are only operating at ~91% efficiency.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-01-23 05:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Ashes Itinen wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Ashes Itinen wrote:


The reason for trying to figure out the correlation is to try and achieve that last bit of efficiency so that i have no raw material left at the end of the extraction cycles.


Uh... why?

Extract everything you can and buffer it in storage/launchpad. It will get processed eventually.



Maximizing efficiency/outputs to processing amount will create greater profits. Your "will get processed eventually" is not really true. If you extract 66,000 units in a set of cycles but can only process 60,000 in the same time period you are only operating at ~91% efficiency.


Except, in a few days of running those idiot 24 hour cycles (you may as well just go mine, jesus) you'll have crushed the local resource pool and the halcyon days of excess P0 will be a sad, distant memory. Then you get to move your ECU, except, not too far, because gas planets are ******* huge, so there's some overhead that's going to cut into the number of heads you can run, leaving you with much the same problem (except actually worse).

And, frankly, prattling on about "efficiency" while running an extraction planet in the current environment? Given favorable taxes, you could make a pure, lazy-as-**** coolant factory, 4x launchpads feeding 5x AIFs each. It'll run unattended for ~65 hours and generate 50-75% more profit at current market prices.

"Maximizing efficiency will create greater profits!" he says.... Roll

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#7 - 2016-01-23 07:20:18 UTC
You can always just sell the excess P0 too... Please tell me how extracting extra is ever less efficient than extracting less.
Haffsol
#8 - 2016-01-23 07:52:22 UTC
A common problem that affect PI nerds not often mentioned in the guides: 101% efficiency for dummies
Ashes Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-01-23 12:33:59 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Ashes Itinen wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Ashes Itinen wrote:


The reason for trying to figure out the correlation is to try and achieve that last bit of efficiency so that i have no raw material left at the end of the extraction cycles.


Uh... why?

Extract everything you can and buffer it in storage/launchpad. It will get processed eventually.



Maximizing efficiency/outputs to processing amount will create greater profits. Your "will get processed eventually" is not really true. If you extract 66,000 units in a set of cycles but can only process 60,000 in the same time period you are only operating at ~91% efficiency.


Except, in a few days of running those idiot 24 hour cycles (you may as well just go mine, jesus) you'll have crushed the local resource pool and the halcyon days of excess P0 will be a sad, distant memory. Then you get to move your ECU, except, not too far, because gas planets are ******* huge, so there's some overhead that's going to cut into the number of heads you can run, leaving you with much the same problem (except actually worse).

And, frankly, prattling on about "efficiency" while running an extraction planet in the current environment? Given favorable taxes, you could make a pure, lazy-as-**** coolant factory, 4x launchpads feeding 5x AIFs each. It'll run unattended for ~65 hours and generate 50-75% more profit at current market prices.

"Maximizing efficiency will create greater profits!" he says.... Roll



Considering that all you can see is this one extraction planet you make an awful lot of assumptions. Including implying that the PI "current environment" is the same throughout eve (which it's not, and also implying you're some sort of high sec carebear). In fact this is part of a coolant producing chain that has a large "resource pool" and I can almost guarantee sells for more than your high sec prices.

So instead of **** posting because your bitter about high sec PI flopping how about you leave your 6 person corp and actually explore eve. That is of course if you're not there by choice. Which would just be too ironic.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-01-23 16:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Ashes Itinen wrote:


Considering that all you can see is this one extraction planet you make an awful lot of assumptions. Including implying that the PI "current environment" is the same throughout eve (which it's not, and also implying you're some sort of high sec carebear).



The "current environment" was referring to the market. You should... you should probably read this, it's about you.

You've basically elected to produce one of the few items that isn't going through wild, 100%+ price hikes thanks to Citadel pre-production, probably because some guide told you POS fuel components are always a hit. Roll

As for assumptions... my assumption is that your coolant production chain does not meaningfully differ from every other ******* coolant production chain ever made. The chain doesn't matter. That planet is worth exactly the market value of that planet's output, no matter what you do with that output. P0s you extract yourself are not free.

PS: Quite impossible to run effective factories in high sec thanks to the tax floor, so that was a particularly stupid hypothesis. ;)

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#11 - 2016-01-24 00:36:28 UTC
Mephiztopheleze' two golden rules on PI. wrote:

NEVER not over extract!
ALWAYS route to and from a buffer!


As a general rule, it's best to NOT upgrade the link from ECU to buffer, unless it causes no hassles. Drop a few heads, route the materials then put the heads back up. Routing to a buffer evens out the cycles later in the run and gives you some wriggle room if you can't cycle your extractors 'in time'.

Going for super-maximum-yield-efficiency means cycling those heads on a regular basis. As in, every 12-24 hours regularly. Which, as mentioned, will quickly crush the resource pool requiring a complete facility relocation where everything bar the command centre is torn down, rebuilt and rewired every week or so.

Screw that [redacted] when you're running 28 planets.

I run my extraction facilities on 2 day cycles and my factories hold enough P1 to run for ~2 1/2 days before I need to shuttle more P1 out to them while producing some 2,300 units of P2/day.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#12 - 2016-01-25 09:03:12 UTC
I'm not sure how the link capacity is calculated per cycle but what i can say is that you setup is not very efficient in its use of links in general.

Personally I prefer a setup where the processors are chained, Rather than linking everything directly to the Launch pad, link processors to each other if you cant place then right next to the launch pad. That way you don't crowed the Launch pad (you have some long links that over lap).