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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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The large amount of unused belts

Author
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
#1 - 2016-01-19 00:01:21 UTC
Ive been wondering about this for many years.... why has CCP put so many belts in lowsec, when its nearly ever mined? The amount of unused belts in lowsec is just staggering... i been thru alot of lowsec systems, goiung thru their belts to find some Nice rats, but ive NEVER meet any miners there. Alos Hisec belts is becoming much more untouched by miners lately... due to fewer players tho... In my time in EVE, ive NEVER seen a miningfleet With orca sitting in a lowsec belt... Which i fully understand, cuz its a standing invite to get killed...


Should CCP make mining in lowsec more lucrative

Or

Just remove the belts since they dont get used at all?

Or

Make mining in lowsec as safe as in hiSec?

Or

Am i barking up the wrong Three?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2 - 2016-01-19 00:06:03 UTC
The problem there is that you can get special ores without ever leaving highsec. It's really one of the worst decisions they've ever made, although it was very quiet in how it wrecked the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
#3 - 2016-01-19 00:23:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The problem there is that you can get special ores without ever leaving highsec. It's really one of the worst decisions they've ever made, although it was very quiet in how it wrecked the game.


Lets say they removed Plag, omber, kernite ect... and Place them in lowsec, it will lead to much higher prices, miners will og to lowsec to mine... so will the pvp'ers too... to kill the miners... forcing the miners back to hisec since it womt be a isk surplus when u need to buy New mining ships too often.

But removing the different "good" ores from hi, bring back scanable miningsites in highsec which contain some good ore... and also make ice deposits randomly scanable signals...



Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2016-01-19 00:51:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The problem there is that you can get special ores without ever leaving highsec. It's really one of the worst decisions they've ever made, although it was very quiet in how it wrecked the game.

The lowsec ores are in crazy low quantities in highsec, Lowsec mining if you aren't interrupted is already vastly more lucrative, and due to the nature of certain groups highsec mining is not risk free nor can it be afk'ed simply because the asteroids are too small.

That said, I wouldn't mind a switch away from fixed belts to more the null style anoms, with all areas of space including null becoming non instant respawn but respawning over time, to take us away from the DT grind and to introduce competition for resources.
I also wouldn't mind seeing NPC miners taxed 11% of their mineral yield to promote player corps a little more and allow that competition to actually take place with wardecs in highsec. And alongside that for Player corps to be able to set a mineral tax on refining as well obviously for corp project use.

But I don't believe any changes need making to the areas of space where you can get each ore as low does have it's own special ores.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#5 - 2016-01-19 00:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Pro-tip: if you are mining in hostile space, the best defense is not to be seen (or let anyone know you are mining in said space)

People do mine in low-sec, null-sec, and wormhole space because it is quite lucrative. You just don't seen them. And they prefer it that way.


However, based on my personal experiences, the vast majority of miners will, without a second thought, trade profitability for security. They are the very definition of "carebear." No amount of risk is worth extra money.
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2016-01-19 02:24:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
That said, I wouldn't mind a switch away from fixed belts to more the null style anoms...

Mining anoms are not exclusive to null, nor are they the best places to mine. You don't find, or at least didn't back when I mined, the +5% and +10% rocks in anoms. Also, having a mining anom in system makes for a great diversion when belt ratting. The interceptors seemed to always warp to the anom first.

As to OP, the reason you can't find miners in lowsec is because they watched this video and applied the lessons taught within.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#7 - 2016-01-19 03:39:07 UTC
Mr goatman, whenever you think you do something to promote only your gameplay you end up messing stuff is that will be your fault.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2016-01-19 06:43:41 UTC
Quite the contrast: All ore anoms should be removed and the special ore occurrences should be included into the regular belts. Moreover, the Ihub ore anoms in Null sec should also be removed and instead, the Ihub should increase spawn rate, number, yield and quality of rocks and rock types in the regular belts. Ore anoms are a pain that should be removed.

@Nevyn Auscent
That wardec plan is utterly futile. A properly set up 1-man corp can't be touched by any war dec, neither now nor under your suggestion. As I do it whenever someone tries to poke me, I simply transfer over my corp to one of my null sec alts (a station sitting alt also works fine) and leave with my main characters. The same goes under your suggestion. The corp would simply be transfered and the main miners keep doing their business as usual, either stocking up the ore until they can rejoin after the war dec or let the holder alt do the refining in station.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#9 - 2016-01-19 06:46:14 UTC
As I see it the reason Low sec is so devoid of Miners is because its less secure than both Null while offering less isk.

In HS you get the highest level of safety, sure there are gankers but a watchlist and a DC2 (also not mining in 0.5) will for the most part make you almost untouchable and if not Skiff will most likely solve that issue.

NS (sov) has a much better income and an almost unlimited amount of ore, all the while having intel channels, Bubbled gates, distance from any ware and friendlies to keep you safe.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#10 - 2016-01-19 08:06:27 UTC
I am in the same boat for removing all Ore Anomalies (even Ice) and expanding on the static belts.

Grids are now 8k km, and thus there is much more space to have all these wonderful things in them.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#11 - 2016-01-19 09:31:30 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
As I see it the reason Low sec is so devoid of Miners is because its less secure than both Null while offering less isk.

In HS you get the highest level of safety, sure there are gankers but a watchlist and a DC2 (also not mining in 0.5) will for the most part make you almost untouchable and if not Skiff will most likely solve that issue.

NS (sov) has a much better income and an almost unlimited amount of ore, all the while having intel channels, Bubbled gates, distance from any ware and friendlies to keep you safe.


That is a people problem, not a mechanics problem. If I could go unmolested into low or nullsec in a Procurer or Retriever, I would but the peasents are hellbend of producing a killmail by all means, so I do not.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#12 - 2016-01-19 09:32:52 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
I am in the same boat for removing all Ore Anomalies (even Ice) and expanding on the static belts.

Grids are now 8k km, and thus there is much more space to have all these wonderful things in them.


That sounds cool and reminds me of the ice fields in nullsec where you could warp to another block because it was 200km away.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Doddy
Excidium.
#13 - 2016-01-19 14:25:44 UTC
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:
Ive been wondering about this for many years.... why has CCP put so many belts in lowsec, when its nearly ever mined? The amount of unused belts in lowsec is just staggering... i been thru alot of lowsec systems, goiung thru their belts to find some Nice rats, but ive NEVER meet any miners there. Alos Hisec belts is becoming much more untouched by miners lately... due to fewer players tho... In my time in EVE, ive NEVER seen a miningfleet With orca sitting in a lowsec belt... Which i fully understand, cuz its a standing invite to get killed...


Should CCP make mining in lowsec more lucrative

Or

Just remove the belts since they dont get used at all?

Or

Make mining in lowsec as safe as in hiSec?

Or

Am i barking up the wrong Three?


They need to rework the whole risk vs reward set up of eve, and have done for years since they broke it trying to make eve a no consequence pve game to attract some of the cash from WoW. Truth is lo sec should be the place to make isk and lp while nullsec should be the place to harvest resources. carebearland should be a place where the risk averse can hide without making the rest of the game pointless by devaluing everybody elses game time with their risk averse wealth creation. CCP is scared to do this however as it may drive away the carebears attracted from WoW and they already drove away so many actual eve players the game might die.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#14 - 2016-01-19 15:55:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The problem there is that you can get special ores without ever leaving highsec. It's really one of the worst decisions they've ever made, although it was very quiet in how it wrecked the game.

Sorry here Kaarous but your extreme hatred for anything and everything high sec is clouding your ability to determine fact from fiction, as usual.
Omber, Plag, Kernite etc are not "rare" ores and according to the real old timers I know (pre 2006 ) those ores have ALWAYS been available in highs sec so that bad decision you are speaking about was probably made before you and I started playing this game.

When we get into what is truly a "rare" ore in this game there is very little of it available to mine in high sec, certainly not enough to have a significant affect on the game as a whole and there is significantly less of it now than there was in the past. So blame the greedy I want to get rich players in low and nul for the abundance of "rare" ores and minerals available for sale in the high sec markets because they are the ones that haul it there and put it on the market.

To the OP.
Risk versus rewards are the reason that low sec ore belts are largely untouched. A lot of what you can get there can be mined in high sec and for the rest it is actually safer to day trip into nul to mine than it is to mine in low sec.
Not sure that removing the belts is a good idea since it would reduce the locations and chances for player interactions.
Changing the balance of the ores to make it more profitable to mine would only have a short term affect, once the increased supply hit the markets the prices would drop and remove most of the profit incentive to mine in low.

And I am definitely against making the low sec belts a safe place to mine, I do not want to listen to the hate and tears of anguish that would emanate from the ganking community. God they cry enough as it is imagine if most of their targets could go mine safely in the belts in low, not sure the forums could survive the river of tears. And in a more serious way making the belts in low safe, or safer to mine in could devastate the ore and mineral markets of the game and that alone would be more than enough reason no to change them.
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2016-01-19 16:37:55 UTC
dont worry belts in null are empty too :)

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE

Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#16 - 2016-01-19 17:13:36 UTC
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:


Or

Just remove the belts since they dont get used at all?



Because nobody ever using a mining ship as bait to gank a pirate...

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#17 - 2016-01-19 18:41:41 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Pro-tip: if you are mining in hostile space, the best defense is not to be seen (or let anyone know you are mining in said space)

People do mine in low-sec, null-sec, and wormhole space because it is quite lucrative. You just don't seen them. And they prefer it that way.


However, based on my personal experiences, the vast majority of miners will, without a second thought, trade profitability for security. They are the very definition of "carebear." No amount of risk is worth extra money.


How is mining in lowsec lucrative, the only reason why it happens is because people can't do math.

Nullsec is different since you can lock down parts of it and local industry actually happens.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Bob Maths
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2016-01-23 11:32:15 UTC
A simpler solution is to reduce the mining belts and quantities of available ore in High-Sec, perhaps another solution is to reduce the amount of high-sec pockets. An in-game explanation would be due to the current issues funding to monitor these parts of space is being redirected to defense fleets.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#19 - 2016-01-23 14:49:47 UTC
Bob Maths wrote:
A simpler solution is to reduce the mining belts and quantities of available ore in High-Sec, perhaps another solution is to reduce the amount of high-sec pockets. An in-game explanation would be due to the current issues funding to monitor these parts of space is being redirected to defense fleets.

How would the empires redirecting money affect the size and quantity of ore belts or pockets of ore?