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We should eliminate basic insurance.
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Troy Cintryx
Strategic Operations Inc.
#1 - 2016-01-19 07:26:57 UTC
Hey EVE. Troy Cintryx here.


We should eliminate basic insurance on all ships. That's the 40% payout you automatically get when your ship goes ka-boom. I always wondered why this was in place to begin with.

If people want insurance, they can pay for it.

There needs to be greater consequences for getting destroyed. Death barely has any consequences anymore, save for the loss of any implants installed, or boosters... boosted. Anyway, I digress.

Insurance can be bought at most stations for a price. It's not like it would be difficult for capsuleers to get if we eliminated basic insurance.

I just think it's time the Secure Commerce Commission stopped rewarding people for getting destroyed.




Note: There was a previous topic from 2012 here - I'm not talking about getting rid of ALL insurance, just the basic automatic insurance that everyone gets for free.

Building empires in EVE for over 12 years.

Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2 - 2016-01-19 07:42:02 UTC
Getting rid of basic insurance is a good start.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-01-19 07:57:23 UTC
+1 good idea
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2016-01-19 08:03:13 UTC
Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people.
40% of the base hull price is not that significant a payout in the smaller ships relative to the module cost, so it hurts people who aren't sitting on multiple billions just fine.
And I'm pretty sure most are not sitting on that kind of money.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-01-19 08:49:22 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people.
40% of the base hull price is not that significant a payout in the smaller ships relative to the module cost, so it hurts people who aren't sitting on multiple billions just fine.
And I'm pretty sure most are not sitting on that kind of money.


Just to be devil's advocate here - you're not supposed to fly what you can't afford to lose. It's sometimes easier said than done, but this proposal wouldn't change that. If that 40% of base hull price, which as you pointed out is rather insignificant, is the make-or-break threshold for whether or not you undock to do something risky, then you'd be better served by not undocking.

Yes, I realize that's tantamount to treason, to tell someone not to undock, but you shouldn't live that close to the line of being broke anyway. There are ways around that, of course. If you're going for a roam, ask your buddies about possible SRP in case the worst comes to pass.

Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#6 - 2016-01-19 09:35:54 UTC
Troy Cintryx wrote:
...There needs to be greater consequences for getting destroyed. Death barely has any consequences anymore, save for the loss of any implants installed, or boosters... boosted. Anyway, I digress.....


Hi elitatwo here.

I has a better idea, crush the economy, remove incursions and block all combat anomlies with a gate that doesn't allow capital ships at all.

EVE just became a better place. You are welcome!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2016-01-19 09:38:30 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Great idea for rich people, terrible idea for poor people.
40% of the base hull price is not that significant a payout in the smaller ships relative to the module cost, so it hurts people who aren't sitting on multiple billions just fine.
And I'm pretty sure most are not sitting on that kind of money.


Just to be devil's advocate here - you're not supposed to fly what you can't afford to lose. It's sometimes easier said than done, but this proposal wouldn't change that. If that 40% of base hull price, which as you pointed out is rather insignificant, is the make-or-break threshold for whether or not you undock to do something risky, then you'd be better served by not undocking.

Yes, I realize that's tantamount to treason, to tell someone not to undock, but you shouldn't live that close to the line of being broke anyway. There are ways around that, of course. If you're going for a roam, ask your buddies about possible SRP in case the worst comes to pass.

Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan.


Exactly this let's people fly more things as they become more affordable to lose

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2016-01-19 09:39:26 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Troy Cintryx wrote:
...There needs to be greater consequences for getting destroyed. Death barely has any consequences anymore, save for the loss of any implants installed, or boosters... boosted. Anyway, I digress.....


Hi elitatwo here.

I has a better idea, crush the economy, remove incursions and block all combat anomlies with a gate that doesn't allow capital ships at all.

EVE just became a better place. You are welcome!


Can we move l4s to low sec as well

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Troy Cintryx
Strategic Operations Inc.
#9 - 2016-01-19 10:45:49 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:


Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan.




This should be required reading for all new capsuleers.



Not to mention, frigates, destroyers, and industry ships aren't hard to come by. Career agents give them out like candy. Including the Venture, which is very easy to make ISK with.


Also, I'm not advocating for the elimination of insurance, just the basic free insurance that everyone gets. If you are afraid of losing your ship... then buy insurance!


Building empires in EVE for over 12 years.

Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2016-01-19 10:48:10 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:

Just to be devil's advocate here - you're not supposed to fly what you can't afford to lose. It's sometimes easier said than done, but this proposal wouldn't change that. If that 40% of base hull price, which as you pointed out is rather insignificant, is the make-or-break threshold for whether or not you undock to do something risky, then you'd be better served by not undocking.

Yes, I realize that's tantamount to treason, to tell someone not to undock, but you shouldn't live that close to the line of being broke anyway. There are ways around that, of course. If you're going for a roam, ask your buddies about possible SRP in case the worst comes to pass.

Playing EvE responsibly is remarkably close to playing "life" correctly. Secure and maintain your income first, watch your back, don't trust too easily or too much, and always have a fallback plan.

Sure, but why move the gate?
It's not going to affect the rich & powerful at all.
Who it will affect are the poor who don't have 100's of hours a month to farm new things and don't live in a coalition with SRP.

So why are we aiming at the poor. Austerity never works, all it does is increase the divide between the rich & poor.
Troy Cintryx
Strategic Operations Inc.
#11 - 2016-01-19 10:55:17 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

So why are we aiming at the poor. Austerity never works, all it does is increase the divide between the rich & poor.



I'm not aiming at the poor. I'm aiming at everyone.


Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything.


New/poor players have many different opportunities to make ISK, from agents, to mining, to whatever else they want to do. Losing their ship will teach them a valuable lesson.... STOP GETTING DESTROYED.

Or, alternatively... BUY INSURANCE.

Building empires in EVE for over 12 years.

Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2016-01-19 11:10:21 UTC
Troy Cintryx wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

So why are we aiming at the poor. Austerity never works, all it does is increase the divide between the rich & poor.



I'm not aiming at the poor. I'm aiming at everyone.


Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything.


New/poor players have many different opportunities to make ISK, from agents, to mining, to whatever else they want to do. Losing their ship will teach them a valuable lesson.... STOP GETTING DESTROYED.

Or, alternatively... BUY INSURANCE.

So, don't undock or spend less time playing the fun parts. Noted.
Troy Cintryx
Strategic Operations Inc.
#13 - 2016-01-19 11:16:30 UTC
Rowells wrote:

So, don't undock or spend less time playing the fun parts. Noted.



How does having to buy insurance turn into "don't undock"?







Building empires in EVE for over 12 years.

Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#14 - 2016-01-19 11:19:28 UTC
Troy Cintryx wrote:

Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything.

Ah, I see your issue.
You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false.
You secondly believe that basic insurance payouts make up a significant portion of isk creation.
And you thirdly believe that this will have any effect on the market.

I suggest going away, and actually looking into your assumptions properly.
Troy Cintryx
Strategic Operations Inc.
#15 - 2016-01-19 11:40:00 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Troy Cintryx wrote:

Stopping automatic insurance payments will slow the inflationary pressures being felt on the EVE market, which drives up the price of basically everything.

Ah, I see your issue.
You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false.
You secondly believe that basic insurance payouts make up a significant portion of isk creation.
And you thirdly believe that this will have any effect on the market.

I suggest going away, and actually looking into your assumptions properly.



Please, Nevyn, tell me what else I believe. Clearly you've known me for so long that you know that.


There is inflation in EVE. There's more ISK being created than disappearing. There's also more ISK per player then there was 10 years ago.

I do not believe basic insurance makes up a "significant" portion of isk creation. Basic insurance creates isk without cost. I have suggested we eliminate that.

Having every single player not receive 40% of their ships value every time they explode will absolutely have an effect on the EVE market. Not a major one, but it will have an effect. Let's say for example the SCC pays out 10 trillion ISK per day in basic insurance. While I don't think it would move the markets in any major way, keeping 10 trillion ISK per day out of the market would have an effect.

I'm also not against insurance. I'm just advancing an idea that we have people pay for it.


Building empires in EVE for over 12 years.

Watch my EVE Corporation Management training videos here.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#16 - 2016-01-19 11:48:35 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
...Can we move l4s to low sec as well


Or make them as difficult as they used to be. We already have the new AI and soloing level 4 missions wasn't as easy as it is now before they introduced level 5 missions - which still are a bust.

To hell with ewar immunity, Guristas jam you, Serpentis damn you, Sanshas tracking disrupt you, Blood Raider neut you and Angels well they are faster than anyone else and stuff, which leaves Rogue Drones that hurt you all over the doll.

And we have it, level 4 missions as highest possible income with appropiate risk in highsec.

You know, I still want to fly and afford a Moa every now and then.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#17 - 2016-01-19 11:51:34 UTC
Troy Cintryx wrote:
[

Please, Nevyn, tell me what else I believe. Clearly you've known me for so long that you know that.

There is inflation in EVE. There's more ISK being created than disappearing. There's also more ISK per player then there was 10 years ago.

I do not believe basic insurance makes up a "significant" portion of isk creation. Basic insurance creates isk without cost. I have suggested we eliminate that.

Having every single player not receive 40% of their ships value every time they explode will absolutely have an effect on the EVE market. Not a major one, but it will have an effect. Let's say for example the SCC pays out 10 trillion ISK per day in basic insurance. While I don't think it would move the markets in any major way, keeping 10 trillion ISK per day out of the market would have an effect.

I'm also not against insurance. I'm just advancing an idea that we have people pay for it.

You are advancing the idea of austerity. Which advantages the already rich and pushes the middle class down.
As for the rest, you are making up laughable figures when CCP have regularly and consistently released economic figures, and explained what is actually going on with the economy. At least use actual real numbers rather than inventing pure bull. Even if you get the conclusions wrong then you at least have some basis to start with.

Anyway, the large price rises in the market have all been due to changes in build requirements causing significant mineral value changes, nothing to do with inflation at all. There is no need to screw with the poorer players for the sake of a tiny change to the overall isk faucets of EVE, which will not impact the markets because the rich won't be significantly affected.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#18 - 2016-01-19 11:53:41 UTC
Troy Cintryx wrote:
...New/poor players have many different opportunities to make ISK, from agents, to mining, to whatever else they want to do. Losing their ship will teach them a valuable lesson.... STOP GETTING DESTROYED.

Or, alternatively... BUY INSURANCE.


You are quite a funny guy, hope you did a pricecheck recently. The insurance for an Apocalypse costs as much has a Harbinger, so you get almost the current pricetag pricetag of said Apocalypse but you didn't fit her yet.

I don't know if you ever dabbled in ship vs ship combat but if you aren't winning, you lose all. Meaning you pay another 80-90 million for the loss of your fit and you will end up flying a Drake for some time.

Either way, your wallet starts looking at you funny.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2016-01-19 12:23:00 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

You firstly believe that there is significant inflation in EVE, which is false.


It is a fact that the cost to put together a ship has doubled in the last 5 years.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#20 - 2016-01-19 12:46:45 UTC
What do I do about the carriers I steal in C1-C4 wormholes though?.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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