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Srsly, something has to be done about incursions.

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Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#81 - 2012-01-10 00:23:16 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We've got a stack of feedback from the CSM, and we'll hopefully be blogging about it in the near future.


Pity the CSM doesn't actually represent the majority of the playerbase.

Less time pushing your personal small group agendas of wanting everyone to play your game, more time doing the job you're suppose to do guys.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#82 - 2012-01-10 00:26:04 UTC
BOO HOO I DONT THINK THE CSM REPRESENT HIGH SEC SCRUBLORDS THATS THE ONLY REASON HIGH SEC IS NOT AS LUCRATIVE, I CANT ACCEPT THAT PERHAPS I AM WRONG BUT TRYING TO DELUDE MYSELF BECAUSE I AM TOO COWARDLY TO LEAVE THE TRAINING GROUNDS.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#83 - 2012-01-10 00:27:30 UTC
You cannot actually run low sec incursions w/o running into goons or test. Seriously if you have ever gone to a low sec incursion you will see goons and their allies there farming it to death. Goons know where the money is at and how to make it. Why are people complaining about high sec incursions, while the rest of 0.0 is bitching about high sec, they dont see the massive fleet building up in goon space of revenants and nightmares getting ready to move out.

Also while the rest whines about incursions you begin to realize one thing.

How come 0.0 people cant form a simple 10 man fleet to fight them? seriously you hold space have over 1000 people in your alliance and you cant get 10-40 people to run vans and make money. Sounds like some serious failure out there.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#84 - 2012-01-10 00:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Lady Spank wrote:
BOO HOO I DONT THINK THE CSM REPRESENT HIGH SEC SCRUBLORDS THATS THE ONLY REASON HIGH SEC IS NOT AS LUCRATIVE, I CANT ACCEPT THAT PERHAPS I AM WRONG BUT TRYING TO DELUDE MYSELF BECAUSE I AM TOO COWARDLY TO LEAVE THE TRAINING GROUNDS.


They don't represent anyone other than nullbear empires.

Remember wanting to nerf ABC mining in Wormholes because they didn't know they were 0.0 regions?


Just because you like to troll in caps with terribly thin veiled insults doesn't make your argument right. People don't all want to play a small group's idea of EVE, deal with it.


Obsidian Hawk wrote:
You cannot actually run low sec incursions w/o running into goons or test. Seriously if you have ever gone to a low sec incursion you will see goons and their allies there farming it to death. Goons know where the money is at and how to make it. Why are people complaining about high sec incursions, while the rest of 0.0 is bitching about high sec, they dont see the massive fleet building up in goon space of revenants and nightmares getting ready to move out.

Also while the rest whines about incursions you begin to realize one thing.

How come 0.0 people cant form a simple 10 man fleet to fight them? seriously you hold space have over 1000 people in your alliance and you cant get 10-40 people to run vans and make money. Sounds like some serious failure out there.


Some of them don't even run the incursions in their own sov. You fly through a week after they're established and still at full penalties.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#85 - 2012-01-10 00:30:40 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
You cannot actually run low sec incursions w/o running into goons or test.

This is completely incorrect.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Alina Wize
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-01-10 00:33:08 UTC
Not sure what you guys are going off about but the only incursions we run are in lowsec. We also run nullsec incursions that happen to land in our space. I didn't even know highsec had incursions What?

What the heck are you guys even complaining about?
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#87 - 2012-01-10 00:35:58 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
You cannot actually run low sec incursions w/o running into goons or test.

This is completely incorrect.


Go check it out when a lo sec incursion is falling in influence zoom over there & see for yourself who is there.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#88 - 2012-01-10 00:36:23 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
BOO HOO I DONT THINK THE CSM REPRESENT HIGH SEC SCRUBLORDS THATS THE ONLY REASON HIGH SEC IS NOT AS LUCRATIVE, I CANT ACCEPT THAT PERHAPS I AM WRONG BUT TRYING TO DELUDE MYSELF BECAUSE I AM TOO COWARDLY TO LEAVE THE TRAINING GROUNDS.


They don't represent anyone other than nullbear empires.

Remember wanting to nerf ABC mining in Wormholes because they didn't know they were 0.0 regions?


Just because you like to troll in caps with terribly thin veiled insults doesn't make your argument right. People don't all want to play a small group's idea of EVE, deal with it.

If you look at their agenda's you will see how small minded your comment is. Most of the people I see crying about how unfair the CSM is are irrelevant high-sec risk averse whiners that think farming incursions, avoiding wardecs and mining in peace are the most important issues. Maybe you don't feel represented because you are completely out of touch with the grand scope of the game. The mineral removal in wormhole space was primarily to limit the ease with which systems could become impenetrable fortresses.


Quote:
Some of them don't even run the incursions in their own sov. You fly through a week after they're established and still at full penalties.
Perhaps they aren't interested in Incursions.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#89 - 2012-01-10 00:37:03 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
How come 0.0 people cant form a simple 10 man fleet to fight them? seriously you hold space have over 1000 people in your alliance and you cant get 10-40 people to run vans and make money. Sounds like some serious failure out there.


Perhaps we have other priorities? v0v
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#90 - 2012-01-10 00:37:24 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
You cannot actually run low sec incursions w/o running into goons or test.

This is completely incorrect.


Go check it out when a lo sec incursion is falling in influence zoom over there & see for yourself who is there.

Last few times I did it it was me, I'm not a goon or testie.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#91 - 2012-01-10 00:44:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Lady Spank wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
BOO HOO I DONT THINK THE CSM REPRESENT HIGH SEC SCRUBLORDS THATS THE ONLY REASON HIGH SEC IS NOT AS LUCRATIVE, I CANT ACCEPT THAT PERHAPS I AM WRONG BUT TRYING TO DELUDE MYSELF BECAUSE I AM TOO COWARDLY TO LEAVE THE TRAINING GROUNDS.


They don't represent anyone other than nullbear empires.

Remember wanting to nerf ABC mining in Wormholes because they didn't know they were 0.0 regions?


Just because you like to troll in caps with terribly thin veiled insults doesn't make your argument right. People don't all want to play a small group's idea of EVE, deal with it.

If you look at their agenda's you will see how small minded your comment is. Most of the people I see crying about how unfair the CSM is are irrelevant high-sec risk averse whiners that think farming incursions, avoiding wardecs and mining in peace are the most important issues. Maybe you don't feel represented because you are completely out of touch with the grand scope of the game. The mineral removal in wormhole space was primarily to limit the ease with which systems could become impenetrable fortresses.


Actually the reason used was "daytrippers would get minerals too easily"

Also never dodged wardecs, do more than farm incursions and mined through Hulkageddon by paying attention.

Also hard to be out of touch when you tend to be where the majority of the playerbase is.

Again, we're debating individual ideas of what people think EVE is, or should be. But the reality is far from the accusations of people in their T1 battleships making billions out of pugfleets that I grow tired of hearing.


Quote:
Quote:
Some of them don't even run the incursions in their own sov. You fly through a week after they're established and still at full penalties.
Perhaps they aren't interested in Incursions.


Good for them, so they choose to ignore a mechanic of the game, others don't so why nerf it?

The choice is there for them, the fact they choose to not make use of it somewhat nullifies the right to complain.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#92 - 2012-01-10 00:57:16 UTC
Admiral Pelleon wrote:
Many empire bears in here.

Adorable.

As soon as your gravy train is threatened, you all come out of the woodwork to post. HTFU and move out of your trade hubs.



Nerf Incursions but put Technetium in some of those useless commander tags or better yet, Mining corp LP stores. That way I can build the T2 I need to do Incursions without going to the null sec club. It makes the "gravy train" an alternative mechanic.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Selinate
#93 - 2012-01-10 01:01:05 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:


Again, we're debating individual ideas of what people think EVE is, or should be. But the reality is far from the accusations of people in their T1 battleships making billions out of pugfleets that I grow tired of hearing.


*looks at wallet*

*looks at ship*

*looks at fleet*

I'm sorry, what was that?
The D1ngo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-01-10 01:08:38 UTC
Admiral Pelleon wrote:
mkint wrote:
Admiral Pelleon wrote:
Many empire bears in here.

Adorable.

As soon as your gravy train is threatened, you all come out of the woodwork to post. HTFU and move out of your trade hubs.

*quoted for irony*

As if the nullbears aren't trying to protect their RMT interests by trying to kill incursions.


Nullsec has risks. Highsec has none. If you'd like to play your 99.9% safe hello kitty online, be prepared to pay for it with less income.



When your master's gravy train is threatened a CTA comes out of the wood work. Boy, don't you scurry when he calls....
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#95 - 2012-01-10 01:11:01 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


Again, we're debating individual ideas of what people think EVE is, or should be. But the reality is far from the accusations of people in their T1 battleships making billions out of pugfleets that I grow tired of hearing.


*looks at wallet*

*looks at ship*

*looks at fleet*

I'm sorry, what was that?


How much are you making per hour, what are you flying and what's your fleet comp?

Then let us know what system that is so you can get rolled by a Faction shield fleet and find yourself losing most contests.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Selinate
#96 - 2012-01-10 01:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Selinate wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


Again, we're debating individual ideas of what people think EVE is, or should be. But the reality is far from the accusations of people in their T1 battleships making billions out of pugfleets that I grow tired of hearing.


*looks at wallet*

*looks at ship*

*looks at fleet*

I'm sorry, what was that?


How much are you making per hour, what are you flying and what's your fleet comp?

Then let us know what system that is so you can get rolled by a Faction shield fleet and find yourself losing most contests.


You said T1 battleships can't make billions with pug fleets. None of the rest of your reply to me matters because you are wrong.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#97 - 2012-01-10 01:18:20 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Selinate wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


Again, we're debating individual ideas of what people think EVE is, or should be. But the reality is far from the accusations of people in their T1 battleships making billions out of pugfleets that I grow tired of hearing.


*looks at wallet*

*looks at ship*

*looks at fleet*

I'm sorry, what was that?


How much are you making per hour, what are you flying and what's your fleet comp?

Then let us know what system that is so you can get rolled by a Faction shield fleet and find yourself losing most contests.


You said T1 battleships can't make billions with pug fleets. None of the rest of your reply to me matters because you are wrong.


I'm also calling your bluff. T1 pug fleets find themselves muscled out by groups like SSO and ISN who contest their sites, win, and move on to clear other ones before forcing them out again, they're certainly not making billions quickly.

Of course you're going to make billions eventually, but of course you weren't being pedantic to the level of "I've been doing this for months and made a couple of billion" because L4 missioning pays out better than that.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Selinate
#98 - 2012-01-10 01:23:02 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:


I'm also calling your bluff. T1 pug fleets find themselves muscled out by groups like SSO and ISN who contest their sites, win, and move on to clear other ones before forcing them out again, they're certainly not making billions quickly.

Of course you're going to make billions eventually, but of course you weren't being pedantic to the level of "I've been doing this for months and made a couple of billion" because L4 missioning pays out better than that.


Now you're just full of it.

you are WRONG
Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-01-10 01:23:46 UTC
Admiral Pelleon wrote:

Nullsec has risks. Highsec has none. If you'd like to play your 99.9% safe hello kitty online, be prepared to pay for it with less income.


I was unaware that null sec had any risk, IE local spike, GET TO THE POS ASAP!!!.

All jokes aside, EVE is extremely safe no matter what kind of space you are in. Even W-Space is super-safe from risk if you pay attention ( you cannot sneak by combat probes no matter how hard u try).

To be fair though, the isk ammount for HS vs, low/null is scewed. In high sec you will see more shiny ships, more shield vindicators fitting their CN invuls, faction webs/guns, etc.. These guys will end up running incursion sites faster than null/low sec for sure, and by a lot. I wouldn't go for an overall HS incursion ISK nerf as much as a null/low sec buff (5-10% buff)

And incursion running has been made even easier with T2 ganglinks (I know, I went there again). I see Scimitars get by in vanguards now tanking solely with ganglink bonuses and a single invul 2. More Tracking links fitted, more DPS, faster sites, more ISK.

Its so funny that I warned people of this exact problem back in January of last year. Its not the people in T1 BSs who are cranking out the 150 mil per hour, its the people in their "elite" shiny fleets. Most people in incursions get 60-80 mil per hour tops just because their fleets don't run smoothly (can't find a logi, long wait times between sites, etc).

Now to nerf incursions because the top percentage is apparently making large amounts of ISK severely punishes those who are barely making more than level 4 missions. Hell, a lot of people do it because its an easy way to get a bit of fleet and social interaction in EVE with low risk.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#100 - 2012-01-10 01:24:43 UTC
Quote:
It's rather hypocritical to complain about how much money they make when you happily run them yourself.

There's nothing wrong with recognizing and complaining about unbalanced gameplay while exploiting it yourself. I would rate that more highly than those who exploit a mechanic, know its terrible for the game, and fight for it to stay that way. I don't personally run incursions, however they are pretty clearly unbalanced, it should not be possible to make equal or more pve'ing in perfect safety in highsec than it is in nullsec.

Instead of adding one giant 0 risk isk faucet to highsec, they should have added some more interesting bits, like sansha gate camps, concord going away, the ability for incursions to block major highways, or escillations into lowsec. Of course allowing players to fight for sansha against other players would be great as well.

It's quite the wasted opportunity in my opinion.