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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5501 - 2016-01-16 17:25:41 UTC
Jerghul wrote:

It may not in fact be completely unacceptable.


In fact, it is. Nullsec is not supposed to be safe.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5502 - 2016-01-16 17:31:56 UTC
Nothing is safe when undocked anywhere in EvE except afk cloaky camping (even ATK cloaked camping has an implicit risk of misguided pvp).

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5503 - 2016-01-16 17:49:22 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Nothing is safe when undocked anywhere in EvE except afk cloaky camping


Wrong.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5504 - 2016-01-16 18:00:28 UTC
No, you are wrong.

And you need a hug: *Huggles*.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5505 - 2016-01-16 18:02:43 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
No, you are wrong.


I'm not the one claiming cloaking devices are invincible.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#5506 - 2016-01-16 18:07:07 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Null-sec mining and ratting is a pretty marginal thing that may need a buff.


The presentation by CCP Quant at Vegas tells a different story of ratting, but don't let facts get in the way of a good tall tale.

And again, a neut in local isnt the end of the world. I'm in a carrier right now, blapping rats with 3 neutrals in local.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5507 - 2016-01-16 18:36:10 UTC
Karous
Nothing is safe in EvE undocked save AFK cloaky camping. Even ATK cloaky camping has some implicit risk.

Morrigan
Exactly the presentation I am referring to. He posted it as a devblog too, so you can review the hardcopy if you like.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5508 - 2016-01-16 18:50:30 UTC
Jerghul wrote:

Nothing is safe in EvE undocked save AFK cloaky camping.


Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less wrong. Something you and Mike really ought to learn.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5509 - 2016-01-16 18:58:29 UTC
Karous
Repeating yourself does not make you any less wrong.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5510 - 2016-01-16 20:36:59 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
Null-sec mining and ratting is a pretty marginal thing that may need a buff.


The presentation by CCP Quant at Vegas tells a different story of ratting, but don't let facts get in the way of a good tall tale.

And again, a neut in local isnt the end of the world. I'm in a carrier right now, blapping rats with 3 neutrals in local.


Was just going to point this out. Rat bounties bring in about 1 trillion ISK/day and that is not counting incursions. Mission bounties are pretty low, in fact the best way to make ISK with missions is to blitz them to speed up the acquistion LP....so the bulk of that ISK is from NS ratting.


"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5511 - 2016-01-16 22:12:48 UTC
Summer of Sov focused heavily on upgrading mining and ratting in null sec. For good reason.

Bounties for combat missions are ~10 times the mission rewards.
High sec and low sec combat anoms.
High sec and low sec belt rats.

The limiting factor to high sec anom running is site availability amazingly. Not enough sites for the players that want to run them.


Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#5512 - 2016-01-17 01:10:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
No, you are wrong.


I'm not the one claiming cloaking devices are invincible.



Still waiting on that method for hunting a cloaked ship in system....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5513 - 2016-01-17 01:16:10 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
No, you are wrong.


I'm not the one claiming cloaking devices are invincible.



Still waiting on that method for hunting a cloaked ship in system....


I'm still waiting for any proof at all of your ludicrous claims. Cloaked ships die all the time, you can look at the killboards for that.

But if you're too dumb to figure out how to bait out a cloaker in your system, you honestly don't belong in nullsec, or EVE Online for that matter.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#5514 - 2016-01-17 01:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Teckos Pech wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
Null-sec mining and ratting is a pretty marginal thing that may need a buff.


The presentation by CCP Quant at Vegas tells a different story of ratting, but don't let facts get in the way of a good tall tale.

And again, a neut in local isnt the end of the world. I'm in a carrier right now, blapping rats with 3 neutrals in local.


Was just going to point this out. Rat bounties bring in about 1 trillion ISK/day and that is not counting incursions. Mission bounties are pretty low, in fact the best way to make ISK with missions is to blitz them to speed up the acquistion LP....so the bulk of that ISK is from NS ratting.




Correct. This can be fairly easily be deduced by examining the mission reward vs bounties. The best level 4 bounties for a 100% full clear are ~30m. Most are in the order of 4-12m. Rewards a fraction thereof.

Thus looking at the data, either non highsec ratting is off the charts or Quant is mistaken.

My isk is on the statistician being accurate.

_________


So tell me again why these people won't undock an ishtar with a neut in local but I'll put carriers on the line with multiple neuts there.......
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5515 - 2016-01-17 06:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
Null-sec mining and ratting is a pretty marginal thing that may need a buff.


The presentation by CCP Quant at Vegas tells a different story of ratting, but don't let facts get in the way of a good tall tale.

And again, a neut in local isnt the end of the world. I'm in a carrier right now, blapping rats with 3 neutrals in local.


Was just going to point this out. Rat bounties bring in about 1 trillion ISK/day and that is not counting incursions. Mission bounties are pretty low, in fact the best way to make ISK with missions is to blitz them to speed up the acquistion LP....so the bulk of that ISK is from NS ratting.




Correct. This can be fairly easily be deduced by examining the mission reward vs bounties. The best level 4 bounties for a 100% full clear are ~30m. Most are in the order of 4-12m. Rewards a fraction thereof.

Thus looking at the data, either non highsec ratting is off the charts or Quant is mistaken.

My isk is on the statistician being accurate.

_________


So tell me again why these people won't undock an ishtar with a neut in local but I'll put carriers on the line with multiple neuts there.......



Also, in looking at the charts CCP Quant provided he does break out mission rewards and bonuses as well and they are pretty small. Sure the rat bounties are larger, but lets go with Jerghul's claim that combat mission bounties are 10x mission rewards and lets further assume all mission rewards that CCP Quant reported are kill missions, and lets add the mission rewards and bonuses together.

We would have to conclude that out of the 31.327 trillion ISK/month from rat bounties 2/3rds of that are from missions. Considering that in NS there are systems where over 30,000 rats are killed in a 24 hour period I find that ludicrious. That one system alone, assuming an average rate bounty of 250,000 would result in 225 billion ISK for a 30 day period. Considering that is not the only system people in NS rat in and that not everyone in HS is running level 4 missions, that the bulk of that 31.3 trillion ISK/day from rat bounties is from NS.

Further, the amount of ISK sunk via LP is 3x the amount of ISK from mission rewards and bonuses. I'm guessing that pro HS lvl 4 mission runners are blitzing the missions for the LP and not the rat bounties.

Edit: Corrected the NS ratting calc.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5516 - 2016-01-17 10:54:26 UTC
Karous
I am still waiting for proof for your ludicrous claims, but in the mean time, here is a hug: *Huggles*

Teckos
Something in the region 1/3 of isk brought into game is through null sec bounties.

But lets be systematic. You are not disputing that mining in null-sec in incredibly marginal. So even in your mind the statement would be half-right.

So lets say that ratting in nullsec contributes to increasing EvE's 883 000 000 000 000 M4 by say 350 000 000 000 per day.
Or compare that 350 billion to 14 trillion goods traded each day.
Or compare it to the 350 billion to the 2.3 trillion final goods produced each day.
Or compare 350 billion to that 900 billion goods destroyed every day.

Yah, null-sec ratting is pretty marginal and could use any buff nerfing afk cloaky camping gives.


Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5517 - 2016-01-17 12:01:22 UTC
Jerghul wrote:

I am still waiting for proof for your ludicrous claims


You've had them already. Cloaked ships die, in fact they're all over the killboards.

You claim they are invincible. They very obviously are not.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5518 - 2016-01-17 14:15:01 UTC
I am awaiting proof on the ludicrous and pathological claims that afk cloaky campers die, and that I claim cloaks in general are invincible.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Randal Ganes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5519 - 2016-01-17 15:43:36 UTC
Been cloaky now for about 48h. AFK now and then . Only 1 kill though allmost 2. But that doesnt matter.

But as i choose the fights, have scanned the sig's i feel more than safe in the system.

Only fight i had to give up was a fight with 1 BS, 1 BC and 1 Navy cruiser. it was fun though.

Now my mixed cloaking will continue. i have to defend those sites. Lol
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#5520 - 2016-01-17 15:51:50 UTC
I have removed a double post.

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