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Does warp velocity affect warp acceleration

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Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#21 - 2012-01-06 18:46:30 UTC
Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer rigs would be MUCH more useful if they increased warp acceleration rate. In most systems, I spend more time accelerating and decelerating than I do aligning or actually warping. How come the code can't support A*e^x instead of just e^x? Sad

And on another note, when will we get that super-fast-acceleration/deceleration effect we keep seeing in the Eve trailers but not ingame?
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#22 - 2012-01-06 19:03:20 UTC
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer rigs would be MUCH more useful if they increased warp acceleration rate. In most systems, I spend more time accelerating and decelerating than I do aligning or actually warping. How come the code can't support A*e^x instead of just e^x? Sad

And on another note, when will we get that super-fast-acceleration/deceleration effect we keep seeing in the Eve trailers but not ingame?

The guy that wrote the code left 10 years ago and the rest are still trying to figure out how it was done. Blink

How to win EVE
Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#23 - 2012-01-06 19:07:47 UTC
Haha, so true Mashie. My corpmate said "Why would they do it that way" and I said "because they are CCP!" lol

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
malaire
#24 - 2012-01-09 17:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: malaire
I wanted to get answer to warp acceleration, so I made this quick graph:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1201/20120109-warp-acceleration.jpg
(I took video of interceptor accelerating and then went through it frame by frame writing down it's speed.)

When warp starts, speed drops from 75 percent max to 5 m/s and then exponentially increases to 21 AU/s. Speed is not just doubling, but is multiplied by about 20 every second.

That small jump at 10,000 m/s could be just a problem while recording video.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else
Infinion
Awesome Corp
#25 - 2012-01-09 18:10:24 UTC
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer rigs would be MUCH more useful if they increased warp acceleration rate. In most systems, I spend more time accelerating and decelerating than I do aligning or actually warping. How come the code can't support A*e^x instead of just e^x? Sad

And on another note, when will we get that super-fast-acceleration/deceleration effect we keep seeing in the Eve trailers but not ingame?



THIS

change Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer rigs so they affect acceleration rather than warp speed.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#26 - 2012-01-09 19:17:09 UTC
... because this sort of thing comes up fairly frequently I haven't read all the posts and will just say:

Try getting a corp member to web, double or triple web you before you try to get a slow ship, such as an Orca or freighter, to go to warp. (Their lock times can also be boosted)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#27 - 2012-01-09 21:14:05 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Per topic, my corpmate and I are trying to figure out whether or not the maximum warp speed of a ship affects the time after a ship reaches 75% max velocity and begins to enter warp to the time the ship is at warp (the "boom.")

I believe it does not affect it, because if I warp in an interceptor for example my warp speed goes up after the boom. We're talking about implants basically.

So if I run the Nomad set of implants but pick the HY-2/2.5 over the Nomad Omega, I will shave more time off at max warp velocity. He is trying to discover if that affects my warp up time, which I don't think it does.

Could somebody please shed some light on this?


Gonna assume this is on a freighter because no one uses Nomads on a pvp ship... (yet)

The correct answer to your query, although late, is full Nomad set + Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' AY-2 or AY-2.5



Even if you increase warp speed of a freighter by 20% the increase is less beneficial than increasing the time it takes to get into warp. This is of course assuming you have no desire to web at EVERY gate EVERY time you travel.



HTH

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#28 - 2012-01-09 21:16:55 UTC
But even if the Nomad gives me 2 seconds off at every gate, if the maximum in-warp time is 30 seconds, I save 15% of that which already is greater than the align time savings. Right?

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#29 - 2012-01-09 23:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Patri Andari
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
But even if the Nomad gives me 2 seconds off at every gate, if the maximum in-warp time is 30 seconds, I save 15% of that which already is greater than the align time savings. Right?


I think not. My maths suck but I think it goes like this:

1. The faster your ship warps (warp speed), the more benefit you get from rigs or implants that increase this speed there are no modules that do this. The bonus is applied to an already high base number. The slower your ship warps the less benefit. The bonus is applied to a lower number. In the case of a freighter we can eliminate rigs and only have the benefit of the implant which will add (according to the tin) 15% to your base speed of .75 au. (slowest in the game iirc)

2. The faster your ship gets in to warp from a dead stop depends on mass and the inertia modifier which by some mathematical voo doo gives each an acceleration used to determine there time to warp speed (align speed). Now here is where I am uncertain. (some maths Guru will correct me)

I *think* modules, rigs and implants reduce this number (align speed) by a percentage. Which means (if I am right) the higher the base align speed (big, lumbering freighter) the more you benefit. The lower this number is (swift, agile shuttle) the less you benefit.

Like with the case of items that affect warp speed, you can not use modules or rigs on your freighter(durr) But...The implants that reduce align speed give more benefit as they do the following:

A. the bonuses are applied to a larger base number thus more beneficial
B. since AY goes in the 7th spot it does not displace the Nomad Omega in your head
C. there is no stacking penalty for using Nomad st PLUS AY



Now for someone to come in here and prove all that wrong.......gah!



P.S. It does not shave 15% off your total warp time, It only adds 15% to your max warp speed. Remember you do not spend your entire time in the warp bubble going max warp speed due to acceleration/deceleration.

HTH

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#30 - 2012-01-09 23:12:16 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Okay so I got the HY-2 and the LG Nomads. By the way, my freighter shows only as warping at .80 AU/s instead of .86 AU/s. Why? No change to spin-up time in warp, only flat warp speed bonus (and less than I expected.)


I was looking into a defect on this today, and there's something odd going on. Can't say exactly what yet because it needs a programmer to check it out.
Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#31 - 2012-01-09 23:50:56 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

I was looking into a defect on this today, and there's something odd going on. Can't say exactly what yet because it needs a programmer to check it out.

Hey thanks Greyscale, your work is appreciated on that manner!

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#32 - 2012-01-09 23:55:13 UTC
Patri Andari wrote:
P.S. It does not shave 15% off your total warp time, It only adds 15% to your max warp speed. Remember you do not spend your entire time in the warp bubble going max warp speed due to acceleration/deceleration.

HTH

It shaves 15% off the max velocity time in warp. For a freighter, that is a very long time. A 30 AU system in my example would take 40 seconds to warp at 0.75 AU/s (freight speed.) With the 15% warp speed modifier, you are effectively turning that 30 AU into 0.86 AU/s, so 34.4 seconds. That saves over five seconds.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#33 - 2012-01-10 07:07:11 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Patri Andari wrote:
P.S. It does not shave 15% off your total warp time, It only adds 15% to your max warp speed. Remember you do not spend your entire time in the warp bubble going max warp speed due to acceleration/deceleration.

HTH

It shaves 15% off the max velocity time in warp. For a freighter, that is a very long time. A 30 AU system in my example would take 40 seconds to warp at 0.75 AU/s (freight speed.) With the 15% warp speed modifier, you are effectively turning that 30 AU into 0.86 AU/s, so 34.4 seconds. That saves over five seconds.


Max velocity time in warp? Not sure what that is. There is max warp velocity and time in warp. These are two different values. When you warp somewhere next time, hover your mouse over your ...speedometer? You will find that you do not spend the full time going max warp speed. Your ship (any ship) has to accelerate and decelerate to and from that max speed.

I am not smart enough to know how to determine how much time you spend accelerating and decelerating . ..BUT...I know there is no way to speed that up and I know you are not doing max velocity the entire time in warp. So applying the 15% increase to the entire 30 au in your equation is wrong. You save some time but certainly NOT a full five seconds.
How much you save is also dependent on how big the system is.

Did a little research on the AY2 though:

At level 5 skills with no implants a freighter should align in 44 seconds .

With Nomads minus the Omega 34.3 <----(that's you)

With the Omega 32.3

Full Nomad set including Omega and AY-2 30.6

You save 3.7 seconds each and every time no matter how many au you have to warp.

So I suppose you may do better with the HY if you spend most of your trip warping long distances but it will vary. I would go with the 3.7 seconds savings every time I warp.



ymmv

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#34 - 2012-01-10 08:28:48 UTC
Right, but if the average Eve system is 30 AU from gate to gate (there were statistics about this) then if I do a 10 jump trip that is 300 AU.

For sake of simplicity we'll round down to 5 seconds, because we'll chop 1 AU off both sides for deceleration purposes. Remember a freighter only warps at .75 AU anyway. At any rate, the savings in warp are better than the savings the Omega gives. I really think so, adfasgh.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#35 - 2012-01-10 08:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
I'm fairly sure you're right, Siig. I found a excel sheet once that let you copy a route in from dotlan, apply your ship(freighters/JFs only), skills, implants, rigs, and autopilot status, and it would tell you how long the trip would take. I'll see if I can dig it up.

EDIT:
*BAM*

There you go

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Matthew
BloodStar Technologies
#36 - 2012-01-10 09:25:59 UTC
Whether you are better off with increased maximum warp speed or decreased align time will depend on several factors:


1) How far you are warping

The fixed warp acceleration rate means that if the warp is short enough for you to not achieve your unbonused maximum warp speed, then increasing your maximum warp speed yields zero benefit. If you are in warp long enough to exceed your unbonused maximum warp speed, the time saving applies only to this "main-phase" of warp and the time savings will be significantly lower than one might expect.


2) Your base warp speed

The fixed warp acceleration rate also means that the higher your maximum warp speed, the more time you spend accelerating and decelerating, and the less time you spend in the "main-phase" of warp. As distance travelled is a function of speed and time, this means that the higher the maximum warp speed of your ship, the longer the warp distance must be before you would see any benefit of applying a warp speed bonus. The size of that benefit relative to your total time in warp will also be smaller the faster your warp speed, because the time saving is only applied to the "main-phase", which will be shorter relative to total time in warp.

Therefore, you are likely to see some benefit even for relatively short warps on a freighter, but it is going to need a relatively long warp before you would see any benefit of improving the warp speed of an interceptor.


If you are purely interested in travel time for a single ship (such as a specialised freighter character), then the two factors above are all you need - pick a typical warp distance for your purpose, test warping time with and without the warp speed bonus (to confirm assumptions about distance travellined in "main-phase") and compare to the alternative agility benefit.


3) Safety Considerations

However, the agility bonus also has the benefit of reducing your exposure at gates/stations etc, which may be a relevant consideration in its favour depending on the purpose to which it is being put. You may spend more time in warp, but you cannot be attacked in warp. And no available bonus is going to enable a freighter to outrun other ships in warp.


Flexibility Considerations

If your character is going to be flying a range of different ships, and you're not going to be swapping out jump clones all the time, then the agility bonus is likely to be more universally useful.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#37 - 2012-01-10 14:09:32 UTC
Matthew wrote:
Whether you are better off with increased maximum warp speed or decreased align time will depend on several factors:


1) How far you are warping

The fixed warp acceleration rate means that if the warp is short enough for you to not achieve your unbonused maximum warp speed, then increasing your maximum warp speed yields zero benefit. If you are in warp long enough to exceed your unbonused maximum warp speed, the time saving applies only to this "main-phase" of warp and the time savings will be significantly lower than one might expect.


2) Your base warp speed

The fixed warp acceleration rate also means that the higher your maximum warp speed, the more time you spend accelerating and decelerating, and the less time you spend in the "main-phase" of warp. As distance travelled is a function of speed and time, this means that the higher the maximum warp speed of your ship, the longer the warp distance must be before you would see any benefit of applying a warp speed bonus. The size of that benefit relative to your total time in warp will also be smaller the faster your warp speed, because the time saving is only applied to the "main-phase", which will be shorter relative to total time in warp.

Therefore, you are likely to see some benefit even for relatively short warps on a freighter, but it is going to need a relatively long warp before you would see any benefit of improving the warp speed of an interceptor.


If you are purely interested in travel time for a single ship (such as a specialised freighter character), then the two factors above are all you need - pick a typical warp distance for your purpose, test warping time with and without the warp speed bonus (to confirm assumptions about distance travellined in "main-phase") and compare to the alternative agility benefit.


3) Safety Considerations

However, the agility bonus also has the benefit of reducing your exposure at gates/stations etc, which may be a relevant consideration in its favour depending on the purpose to which it is being put. You may spend more time in warp, but you cannot be attacked in warp. And no available bonus is going to enable a freighter to outrun other ships in warp.


Flexibility Considerations

If your character is going to be flying a range of different ships, and you're not going to be swapping out jump clones all the time, then the agility bonus is likely to be more universally useful.



ditto!





Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#38 - 2012-01-10 15:10:29 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
No.


(Nothing changes warp acceleration because the code doesn't currently support it.)


time for a re-write then
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#39 - 2012-01-10 20:16:21 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
No.


(Nothing changes warp acceleration because the code doesn't currently support it.)


time for a re-write then


Some code in EvE need a re-write? What?

But seriously, this is like the least important thing that could use rewriting in the game.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Vyl Vit
#40 - 2012-01-11 09:14:49 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
No.


(Nothing changes warp acceleration because the code doesn't currently support it.)


I hate it when you go on and on like this. Is there no END to your verbosity???

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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