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Wardec idea iteration on another idea
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#181 - 2016-01-14 02:59:37 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

I think you can be a bit more optimistic than that.

After Citadels we know the last step in the plan outlined in 2014 is for player built stargates leading to new areas of space with new mechanics.

That's a pretty massive project so I expect a lot of the teams will be working on that.

After that we don't yet know (Fanfest will hopefully give us that information), but we do know that there is new PvE coming, changes are planned for lowsec and it's not too much of a stretch to think highsec will get some attention too.

So I think less than 3 years, but maybe just my optimism.

You are a bit ahead of yourself, there are about 5 more classes of player structures to be introduced as well as Citadels. But Citadels will show how all the structures will work (to some degree, since the other structures won't be as heavily gunned).
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#182 - 2016-01-14 03:05:12 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

I think you can be a bit more optimistic than that.

After Citadels we know the last step in the plan outlined in 2014 is for player built stargates leading to new areas of space with new mechanics.

That's a pretty massive project so I expect a lot of the teams will be working on that.

After that we don't yet know (Fanfest will hopefully give us that information), but we do know that there is new PvE coming, changes are planned for lowsec and it's not too much of a stretch to think highsec will get some attention too.

So I think less than 3 years, but maybe just my optimism.

You are a bit ahead of yourself, there are about 5 more classes of player structures to be introduced as well as Citadels. But Citadels will show how all the structures will work (to some degree, since the other structures won't be as heavily gunned).

Yeah lots more structures coming, which will probably also flow into changes in moon mining and maybe other things we currently do.

I guess I'm thinking after the Citadels are done, the others will use the same approach and code, so will be smaller individual projects that can be done as other things are being done too.

Easily wrong though.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#183 - 2016-01-14 12:04:47 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

I think you can be a bit more optimistic than that.

After Citadels we know the last step in the plan outlined in 2014 is for player built stargates leading to new areas of space with new mechanics.

That's a pretty massive project so I expect a lot of the teams will be working on that.

After that we don't yet know (Fanfest will hopefully give us that information), but we do know that there is new PvE coming, changes are planned for lowsec and it's not too much of a stretch to think highsec will get some attention too.

So I think less than 3 years, but maybe just my optimism.

You are a bit ahead of yourself, there are about 5 more classes of player structures to be introduced as well as Citadels. But Citadels will show how all the structures will work (to some degree, since the other structures won't be as heavily gunned).

Yeah lots more structures coming, which will probably also flow into changes in moon mining and maybe other things we currently do.

I guess I'm thinking after the Citadels are done, the others will use the same approach and code, so will be smaller individual projects that can be done as other things are being done too.

Easily wrong though.


Yeah, he's right about that, this upcoming release is the big one, their proof of concept as it were. It's why it's beyond moot to even talk about wars, or sov, or basically anything else until then, because barring small tweaks with sov timers or such, they aren't touching anything until then. And that's because they intend to upend basically the whole game with the Citadel release.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#184 - 2016-01-14 14:08:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Yeah, he's right about that, this upcoming release is the big one, their proof of concept as it were. It's why it's beyond moot to even talk about wars, or sov, or basically anything else until then, because barring small tweaks with sov timers or such, they aren't touching anything until then. And that's because they intend to upend basically the whole game with the Citadel release.


Do we really think Citadel is going to be this major life changing update?
I mean, yeah it's going to change structures and capitals, but it's still functionally Eve.


P.S. - ignoring the big pink elephant on the video discussion, ehh?
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#185 - 2016-01-14 14:44:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
In the first five minutes of that video(specifically between 2:30 and 3:50) he declares that they separated players between illegally killed and legally killed, then checked retention for each of them. Legally killed basically always means wars or duels, by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJlNGtXts_E
If this is the disputed video then in the first 5 minuets NOTHING is said about player retention. In fact the first 5 minutes is taken up with a promo video and CCP rise's opening comments.

Before I comment further on the quoted portion above I need to make sure I am watching the same video that you claim to be watching Kaarous, please post a link.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#186 - 2016-01-14 14:57:14 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
In the first five minutes of that video(specifically between 2:30 and 3:50) he declares that they separated players between illegally killed and legally killed, then checked retention for each of them. Legally killed basically always means wars or duels, by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJlNGtXts_E
If this is the disputed video then in the first 5 minuets NOTHING is said about player retention. In fact the first 5 minutes is taken up with a promo video and CCP rise's opening comments.

Before I comment further on the quoted portion above I need to make sure I am watching the same video that you claim to be watching Kaarous, please post a link.

Wrong video.
That's the keynote.

You're
Wanting to look at othe video titled "Using Science to help Newbros."
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#187 - 2016-01-14 16:43:33 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Yeah, he's right about that, this upcoming release is the big one, their proof of concept as it were. It's why it's beyond moot to even talk about wars, or sov, or basically anything else until then, because barring small tweaks with sov timers or such, they aren't touching anything until then. And that's because they intend to upend basically the whole game with the Citadel release.


Do we really think Citadel is going to be this major life changing update?
I mean, yeah it's going to change structures and capitals, but it's still functionally Eve.

I actually don't, at all and I don't think they're going to be some magical content source. Largely because shooting structures is literally the worst gameplay in the game and the potential reward for shooting a citadel will be negligible. POS towers are better and they still suck. Moreover thing-having isn't gameplay in and of itself, people will initially work to get citadels, realize that having a citadel isn't any more inherently interesting than having POS and forget there was anything to get excited about.

I doubt they'll have any substantial affect on how anyone operates in highsec and certainly they won't affect how people behave in wars at all. At most there will be an initial rush of people hiring mercenaries to kill other people's citadels/defend them.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#188 - 2016-01-14 17:20:52 UTC
I disagree. It all depends on what capabilities CCP gives these structures, but it is easy to imagine that they become conflict drivers. Imagine a structure that buffs mining yield or mission rewards by 20% in a cluster. Every bear corporation with more than a few people is going to want to have one of those. Now imagine that bonus is divided up amongst each corporation that deploys such a structure in that cluster. Bear corps would then have a reason to declare war on each other, as well as hire mercenaries, to enforce their claim on the resource.

All corporation benefits such as tax ability, industry bonuses, hangers, and yes, even the ability to declare wars could eventually be moved to citadels and the other structures. As long as CCP sticks to their guns and the cost and benefits of the rigs prevent easy evasion, corps would have to show up to defend or lose their investment. This would give corporations meaning and also be disruptable by opponents.

Still, they have potential but that depends on them being valuable enough, vulnerable enough yet defendable. If CCP gets it wrong, people just won't bother. It's going to be an interesting year or so.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#189 - 2016-01-14 17:34:09 UTC
I'm speaking in terms of the things we know are going to happen, which is largely just the shift of POS functionality to them with additional docking ability.

That isn't exciting and isn't going to have a massive impact on anything really. And what lies beyond that basic functionality is so speculative I don't think it's worth seriously considering at this point.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#190 - 2016-01-14 18:27:35 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

Do we really think Citadel is going to be this major life changing update?


Since they'll probably be slaving optimal PvE gameplay to it, yes. It changes most of the dynamics in highsec if they do that.


Quote:

P.S. - ignoring the big pink elephant on the video discussion, ehh?


You outright lied and got caught on it. Smokescreen harder, liar.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#191 - 2016-01-14 18:32:43 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'm speaking in terms of the things we know are going to happen, which is largely just the shift of POS functionality to them with additional docking ability.

That isn't exciting and isn't going to have a massive impact on anything really. And what lies beyond that basic functionality is so speculative I don't think it's worth seriously considering at this point.


If all they do is what they've shown so far, I agree.

I doubt very much, however, that just giving us POS with docking is all they have up their sleeves. But if that's all they have on release, if they're that out of ideas, they might as well just turn the servers off.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#192 - 2016-01-14 18:54:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Quote:

P.S. - ignoring the big pink elephant on the video discussion, ehh?


You outright lied and got caught on it. Smokescreen harder, liar.



Dang bud.... You're stubborn...
Can't even admit when you're wrong.

ANYONE with half a brain can watch the first 6 minutes of the video and tell that is has very little to do with wardecs and speaks ONLY of newbros less than 15 days old, and legal kills consist of any situation where the aggressor was not killed by CONCORD, which IS NOT limited to wardecs or even HS.

You're back on the ignore list again...
I can't be bothered to debate someone who can't even admit when they're wrong as it shows the have no valuable input that isn't biased.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#193 - 2016-01-14 18:56:55 UTC
While wardecs are mostly a highsec thing, that doesn't mean wardeccers should be forced into highsec. Wardecs still have applications outside of highsec.

Oh god.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#194 - 2016-01-14 19:03:15 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

ANYONE with half a brain can watch the first 6 minutes of the video and tell that is has very little to do with wardecs


I guess you have less than half a brain then, since you swore up and down all over this thread that Rise never said one word about wars, but he very clearly does in the video, mentioning that the retention rate of "legally" killed new players was only somewhat below that of ganking.

Over and over again you said that CCP has never said a word about wars and retention.

Like I said, smokescreen harder, liar. You won't wiggle your way out of this one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#195 - 2016-01-14 19:11:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

ANYONE with half a brain can watch the first 6 minutes of the video and tell that is has very little to do with wardecs


I guess you have less than half a brain then, since you swore up and down all over this thread that Rise never said one word about wars, but he very clearly does in the video, mentioning that the retention rate of "legally" killed new players was only somewhat below that of ganking.

Over and over again you said that CCP has never said a word about wars and retention.

Like I said, smokescreen harder, liar. You won't wiggle your way out of this one.


Please... Try harder.
S0* he mentioned wardecs in passing.
He was NOT speaking of wardecs, he was speaking of legal kills such as duels, wardecs, and other stuff...

He DID NOT speak of wardecs.
You claim was that the video spoke on the connection of wardecs in relation to retention.
He was referring to retention in relation to 'newbros' and "LEGALLY KILLED".

It had nothing to do with wardecs.
So he mentioned the word in passing, he said the word... OMG HE SAID THE WORD!!!!

I never said they haven't said the word... My claim is that they have never spoken of the relation between wardecs and retention, WHICH THEY HAVE NOT AND DID NOT IN THAT VIDEO....

You're not even reading between the lines... You're creating your own lines.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#196 - 2016-01-14 19:18:45 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
My claim is that they have never spoken of the relation between wardecs and retention, WHICH THEY HAVE NOT AND DID NOT IN THAT VIDEO....


They straight up did. In that video.

You're either totally ******** and didn't bother watching the video at all, or you're that dedicated to your lie. Either way you're beyond help.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#197 - 2016-01-14 19:27:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
My claim is that they have never spoken of the relation between wardecs and retention, WHICH THEY HAVE NOT AND DID NOT IN THAT VIDEO....


They straight up did. In that video.

You're either totally ******** and didn't bother watching the video at all, or you're that dedicated to your lie. Either way you're beyond help.


Maybe there's a language barrier there or something..
You might want to get a translator, or a common sense advocate.

He mentions wardecs very shortly, when he speaks of 'examples' of legal kills.

he IS NOT speaking directly about the correlation between wardecs and retention.
Hell, he mentions dueling and "other things" as well.

He was speaking SPECIFICALLY on the relation between LEGAL KILLS and retention and goes even further to mention this was check not by legality, but whether the aggressor was killed by CONCORD.
This means the premise of legal kills consists of Wardecs, duels, bounties, can flips, perhaps they hit counter-ganked them after they fired, lowsec, WH, Null, and any other situation in which CONCORD WOULD NOT have killed the other pilot.

So again, it IS NOT a relation between wardecs and retention.
It is a relation between LEGAL KILLS and retention, wardecs being a small part of that.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#198 - 2016-01-14 19:30:23 UTC
oh wow look at him spin,

you sure wound him up good and taught there kaarous.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#199 - 2016-01-14 19:30:40 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

he IS NOT speaking directly about the correlation between wardecs and retention.


Yes, he does. He even uses the word "wars" during the presentation. Could you be any dumber, or did you just not bother watching the video?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#200 - 2016-01-14 19:35:59 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

Also, CCP HAS NEVER spoken of the relation of wardecs and retention.
As I explained on the last thread, which you conveniently seem to have forgotten, CCP has only released information regarding the effects of GANKS and GRIEFING, to which wardecs are considered neither.


Roll

Quoting for posterity, so he can't edit it out.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.