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PI capacity and bottleneck issues

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Saxinis Kion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-01-11 18:29:30 UTC
I've only recently entered PI so I'm still trying to learn the ropes, but I've noticed that at each level of production there is a bottleneck and am trying to research how to remedy the situation.


EH1 ----->Storage1 ----->BF1 ------>Storage2 -----> AF1
EH2 ----->Storage1 ----->BF2 ------>Storage2 -----> AF1

So I make sure there are plenty of RawMaterial1 & RawMaterial2 in Storage1, however BasicFactory1 (BF1) and BasicFactory2 (BF2) will only process so many units an hour.

I sidestepped this by adding two additional basic factories.

Now I have the same issue with AdvancedFactory1 (AF1).

So my questions are:

1. Is there an alternative way to speed up processes at the factories that I missed or do I need to just wait for my skills to increase?

2. Why do I use such a small amount of capacity in my links between the various modules? Since I can upgrade the links and increase capacity, doesn't that mean I can have more than 3000 raw materials pushed to each basic factory each hour?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2016-01-11 18:44:10 UTC
You can't improve factory speeds, no. They run at a set speed.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Saxinis Kion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-01-11 18:47:40 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You can't improve factory speeds, no. They run at a set speed.



Okay, thanks. Then what is all the capacity for in the module links? And why can you pay to increase it if you can't speed up the factories?
Anders Tryce
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#4 - 2016-01-11 22:26:02 UTC
So you can pay for :

-Command Center upgrade (in order to be able to setup more factories/Extractor head etc...)
-Link upgrade (to improve the capacity of a link .... for exemple if an extractor produce too much P0 / hour you may need to improve a link (never had to upgrade one personnaly ^^ ))

As said above you can't speed upp the factories ... It's 30min or 1h cycle depending on the type of the factory.
No skill can speed upp factories too.
Haffsol
#5 - 2016-01-11 22:40:06 UTC
Saxinis Kion wrote:
2. Why do I use such a small amount of capacity in my links between the various modules? Since I can upgrade the links and increase capacity, doesn't that mean I can have more than 3000 raw materials pushed to each basic factory each hour?

If you're talking about the links, they can already carry more than 3.000 units/hr, in fact it's 25.000/hr at lvl0, becomes 50.000 at lvl1 and doubles at every further upgrade you make. The real limiting factor for links it's their lenght and in all cases I never needed to upgrade to anything more than lvl1 so I'm not even sure what kind of configuration may need more than that. Assuming nullsec or wspace planets, in high or low you should be fine at lvl0.

Kinda old but always good stuff here.
Saxinis Kion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-01-12 09:54:32 UTC
Thanks everyone. I didn't realize there were differences between null/wh space and low/high outside of customs. That explains a lot. That is why I was trying to do some research.

Thanks again.

Saxinis
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#7 - 2016-01-12 12:08:10 UTC
links can be for direct transfer, or transiting transfer.

If you had, for example:

Launchpad -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3

you could feed factory 3 direct from the launchpad, as long as all the links along the route can support the volume. Helps to cut down on the requirements for links. Which can be a major deal on big planets.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-01-12 16:25:27 UTC
Saxinis Kion wrote:

2. Why do I use such a small amount of capacity in my links between the various modules?



Because the PI we wound up with is very different than what was imagined and, consequently, there are some design artifacts.

On a very resource rich planet with a large extractor setup you can saturate a level 0 link. So far, I've never had to do more than a single link upgrade. IIRC there are, like... 10 link upgrade levels available. Roll

The entirety of routing and linking is very Rube Goldbergian in its implementation, likely because it was originally intended to accommodate a much more complex design than the PI of today.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2016-01-13 17:35:17 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
links can be for direct transfer, or transiting transfer.

If you had, for example:

Launchpad -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3

you could feed factory 3 direct from the launchpad, as long as all the links along the route can support the volume. Helps to cut down on the requirements for links. Which can be a major deal on big planets.

Cringe.

Direct links are bad, because there is no guarantee of which installation cycles first, which can result in wasted time.

Always have some sort of storage buffer on BOTH the input AND the output.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-01-13 17:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
links can be for direct transfer, or transiting transfer.

If you had, for example:

Launchpad -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3

you could feed factory 3 direct from the launchpad, as long as all the links along the route can support the volume. Helps to cut down on the requirements for links. Which can be a major deal on big planets.

Cringe.

Direct links are bad, because there is no guarantee of which installation cycles first, which can result in wasted time.

Always have some sort of storage buffer on BOTH the input AND the output.


I'll echo this. It's also helpful when you inevitably **** up one of your routes while retooling.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#11 - 2016-01-14 05:37:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mephiztopheleze
Saxinis Kion wrote:
I've only recently entered PI so I'm still trying to learn the ropes, but I've noticed that at each level of production there is a bottleneck and am trying to research how to remedy the situation.


This is a common problem with Extraction -> P2 setups where you find yourself overproducing on one input and under-producing on the other. The horrific amount of powergrid that ECUs chew up doesn't help the situation, especially if you don't have Command Center Upgrades V.

The 'remedy' is to have pure Extraction -> P1 facilities then dump the goods onto a Factory Planet* to process the P1 to P2. You'll want access to low tax POCOs to really pull this off. Depending where you're setup, you may or may not be able to keep the factory planet fed with just one character. I run four Factory planets and 24 extraction facilities across five characters, which is about as much FarmVille-In-Space as I can stomach, and I still run into production bottlenecks every now and again.

*That factory setup is a CCU V pilot, for CCU IV just drop a couple of factories. The Launchpads feed the 10 factories at the top, the Silos feed the 11 factories at the bottom, expedited transfers are used to shuttle P1s to the Silos and all outputs route to the 'empty' launchpad. Keeping 45k of each P1 in the POCO, I only have to visit the planet once every 3-4 days'ish. The Extraction facilities work fine for CCU IV on all but the biggest planets. Note that the actual Command Center itself isn't linked to anything.

If you're going to go into PI in any kind of multiple character way, it's well worth taking the time to train CCU V on one of them.

Before you ask: I pull in something on the order of ~ISK2.5-3b/month from PI.

Tau Cabalander wrote:
Always have some sort of storage buffer on BOTH the input AND the output.


+1,001.
ALWAYS route to and from a Buffer Storage.
ALWAYS!

Saxinis Kion wrote:
Thanks everyone. I didn't realize there were differences between null/wh space and low/high outside of customs. That explains a lot. That is why I was trying to do some research.


There's HUGE differences in the 'richness' of planets between security zones and it's all based on the 'TrueSec' of the system. For example, New Caldari is a 1.0 system, so it's planets are the poorest for extraction. BF-SDP in Outer Ring (to pick a system at random), has a -0.04 trusec, so it's planets are far, far richer than New Caldari. All of Wormhole space is -0.99 trusec, so their planets are the richest possible for extraction purposes, rivaled only by some 0.0 systems with similarly low trusec.

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This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#12 - 2016-01-14 13:58:34 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
links can be for direct transfer, or transiting transfer.

If you had, for example:

Launchpad -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3

you could feed factory 3 direct from the launchpad, as long as all the links along the route can support the volume. Helps to cut down on the requirements for links. Which can be a major deal on big planets.

Cringe.

Direct links are bad, because there is no guarantee of which installation cycles first, which can result in wasted time.

Always have some sort of storage buffer on BOTH the input AND the output.



Heh. you can, however, route everything from factory 1 back to the launchpad. And then from the launchpad to factory 2. It'll show up as a 'transiting' route on factory 1

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2016-01-14 19:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Heh. you can, however, route everything from factory 1 back to the launchpad. And then from the launchpad to factory 2. It'll show up as a 'transiting' route on factory 1

Perhaps a misunderstanding then,

Never really had an issue with link length or capacity. Sure, can route through existing links.

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1108/p2_factory.jpg
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1108/p3_factory.jpg