Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You might be able to refit, I have not tried it. Besides, you don't get to take the whole station with you out into space. There needs to be *some* trade off for being safe at any time, any place in a location that cannot even be camped to catch you as you come and go. With a cloak you remain mobile.

That's all you should get, it's already quite powerful. Being able to be effective against other players in any fashion whatever that is unavailable in a station is too strong. You should get no overview other than celestial objects, no visuals of moving objects, and the ability to activate modules of any kind should be delayed just like targetting.

You want station safety, then take on station restrictions.

Except you are getting the benefit- safety. If you are to be safe from others, then you should truely and completely have no affect on them either, which is not the case.

If it involves another player in any way at all, and it's not available in station, then you should not have it cloaked, nor during the target delay. That would be the appropriate price for that level of safety.

So. No station services, no swapping ships, access to personal hangar, corporate hangers is available, etc.

And you can't do anything with another player while cloaked and at a safe to maintain that safety.

We have already been over this, being in station is definitely better than being in a cloaked ship in space.

Your argument is invalid.

Further, another reason this argument is invalid is that it nerfs all uses of cloaks not just AFK cloaking. We have gone over this before, that nerfing say 1,000 players' game to correct something 10 players are doing is not just bad game design it is horrible game design.

I argued long and hard to balance the safety rather than the utility. You can't have it both ways

In station you get both though, the safety and the utility, and in NPC space you have pretty much the same effect as a cloaked ship in Sov. Heck, even in sov space a neutral shows up and yeah, he's docked....but is he going to undock in his last combat ship and try to kill you while ratting? There have been times where I have had a clone in a hostile station...and even had stuff there.

So, all this station stuff is just a bad attempt to justify nerfing something that does not need nerfing.

Really? You are going to trot out that lame horse now? Quoting out of context?

And no ideas? I was arguing in favor of moving intel in game, improving it, yet vulnerable and at the same time make it so at least long term cloaking would no longer be viable. Also, you should know this because you were a participant in my old AFK cloaking collection thread and Nikk Narrel's thread on how to fix the problem.

Seriously, you are literally trolling with that post. I'll be generous, 1/10.

What gets me is that these fixes would essentially eliminate things like asymmetric and psychological warfare. For both to work you really need some form of stealth. The whole idea of black ops is you sneak in and then attack when least expected. But that last part is the part they hate. They hate a fully intended form or game play. Unless of course we think the Dev's are completely stupid and put Black Ops in for some other reason like moving moon goo (/sarcasm).

Yes AFK cloaking can be annoying and place additional burdens on residents of a given system or even systems. However, this is a sandbox MMO and placing additional burdens on people is not just part of the game...it is intended. So, the mere burden is, IMO, insufficient grounds to nerf something. One could argue that the mechanism is not very good so changing it so that the game play is more interesting....well that is a different issue, but the insistance that cloaks are broken with little or no justification is just ridiculous.

The latest has been, "People using cloaks use them to attack you when you are least prepared!" Yeah, and? People should only be allowed to attack when you are most prepared? Maybe all PvP should be made consensual? A great deal of PvP takes place when one side is ill prepared. If you want to attack 1 guy and you go get buddy...you are stacking the deck in your favor. You are better prepared, he is less prepared for that type of engagement. If you bring logistics and the other side does not, you are better prepared. If you bring a well designed doctrine fleet vs. a kitchen sink fleet, you are better prepared. Freighter ganking, often a hot topic on these forums, one side is clearly better prepared. The better prepared side has a doctrine, comms, multiple people, scouts, and a plan. The other side may not even be at their goddamn keyboard (literally). Is anyone other than me seeing a pattern here?

But yet a very common refrain on these forums, not just this thread, is the same thing over and over again. That the less well prepared side should get a helping hand from CCP. Laughably these requests will often come with claims that it will help boost PvP.

Oh, I agree completely.

But you have argued incessantly that it is appropriate, even essential, to keep the safety of cloaks where it is.

I still contend that the level of safety combined with the level of action available is imbalanced. If we cannot bring them into line by making them huntable in some fashion, then the ability to gather information, move into position for attack, and attack using non-targeting modules before the targeting delay ends needs to go.

A requirement that you remain awake, aware and actively evasive to protect yourself does not break those uses of cloaks you find so very essential. It does add some risk to performing those actions, which is appropriate to a ship operating in space.

However, if having a mobile "safer than in dock" button is essential, then the active utility of them needs to go. You can be safe, or be effective. Not both.

Oh and if the pilot isn't at the computer, they can't do any of the stuff you just said, so are you against afk-cloaking or cloaks in general, because you are mixing things up here

Go ask Nalia White, she seems to kill a metric shitload of cloaked ships.

Also your caveat is invalid: How do you hunt it when not in X,Y or Z circumstance.

Secure your borders, "problem" solved.