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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#5381 - 2016-01-13 17:46:21 UTC
Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.


The Standard Off topic post and those quoting removed.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5382 - 2016-01-13 17:49:31 UTC
Xcom wrote:
And we are full circle again. Arguing with these 3 is just stupid. Insults and personal attacks is all they reframe to the second they don't have an answer.


There is no "answer" to a problem that only exists in your imagination.

Cloaks are not broken because you want to claim they are. You have absolutely no right to safety while enagaged in PvE, not now and not ever, and especially not in nullsec space.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#5383 - 2016-01-13 17:55:16 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xcom wrote:

I do think they are monstrously broken. The fact you can't hunt a cloaked ship is the broken nature of cloaks.


You can hunt them. Yeesh, are we speaking different languages here, or did you just not read the rest of the thread? Dealing with cloaked ships has been spelled out several times already.


Really? Please give even a general sense of how it's possible to hunt a ship using a cloak.

Every single action taken 'against' a cloaked ship is reactive. Every single tactic used to destroy a ship intelligently using a cloak relies on pilot error and/or monumental luck.

Making yourself a harder target, baiting or accidently hitting one on the way to a gate isn't hunting.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5384 - 2016-01-13 18:01:32 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Really? Please give even a general sense of how it's possible to hunt a ship using a cloak.


You've asked this before, and been told how numerous times.

And you have ignored them every time, petulantly crying about how any effort is unacceptable.

So now I'm content to let you wallow in your ignorance. Go and actually read the rest of the thread.


Quote:

Every single action taken 'against' a cloaked ship is reactive.


Good. The whole point of a cloaking device is to give initiative to the person using them. To force a reaction by people who would otherwise just blithely go on farming.


Quote:

Every single tactic used to destroy a ship intelligently using a cloak relies on pilot error and/or monumental luck.


You can take out "using a cloak" and put in quite a few other things(hauling, for example), and it still applies.

Kinda funny though, the cloaked player wouldn't even be in there if you actually had control of your in gates. But you don't, and you think you shouldn't have to.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5385 - 2016-01-13 18:07:39 UTC
Karous
"if you actually had control of your in gates"

Exactly. Though not in the way you were thinking.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5386 - 2016-01-13 18:08:47 UTC
Jerghul wrote:

Exactly. Though not in the way you were thinking.


Yeah, actually having to do something, instead of just pushing a button for free safety like you want.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#5387 - 2016-01-13 18:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xcom wrote:
And we are full circle again. Arguing with these 3 is just stupid. Insults and personal attacks is all they reframe to the second they don't have an answer.


There is no "answer" to a problem that only exists in your imagination.

Cloaks are not broken because you want to claim they are. You have absolutely no right to safety while enagaged in PvE, not now and not ever, and especially not in nullsec space.


Despite clearly being against the very foundational design goals of EvE itself, Teckos has presented evidence that the current function of cloaks is indeed intended, and the balance of the gameplay involved simply handwaved away as it's effect on the prey professions is more important than balanced gameplay for the game as a whole.

However if the cloak isn't broken then any ship under an active cloak that can see any other ships on the grid and use *any* ship function whatsoever is broken. Those functions should be disabled and not return until the target delay is done. No activating even passive modules, no probes, no functions of any kind other than propulsion and those functions useable in station.

If the module is meant to guarantee station level safety while in space, it should enforce station level disadvantages as well.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5388 - 2016-01-13 18:10:40 UTC
Quote:
However if the cloak isn't broken then any ship under an active cloak that can see the grid and use *any* ship function whatsoever is broken.


No it's not. It's how cloaks are intended to work.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#5389 - 2016-01-13 18:15:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jerghul wrote:

Exactly. Though not in the way you were thinking.


Yeah, actually having to do something, instead of just pushing a button for free safety like you want.


Free safety? You mean like that granted by an active cloak?

Because you may not be under active threat when you are in an empty system, but you sure aren't safe. Cloaked is safe. You just refuse to understand the meaning of plain words.

If it served a PvE function, you would be railing against cloaks with a passion.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#5390 - 2016-01-13 18:17:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
However if the cloak isn't broken then any ship under an active cloak that can see the grid and use *any* ship function whatsoever is broken.


No it's not. It's how cloaks are intended to work.



Cloaks are apparently meant to provide station level safety at any time and place. That's not a hunting thing, or a scouting thing. Hunting and scouting are important PvP functions and should never be performed in safe conditions.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5391 - 2016-01-13 18:19:11 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Free safety? You mean like that granted by an active cloak?


No, I mean the utter nonsense that Jerghul keeps copy and pasting, where he wants the ability to turn gates off to people who aren't in his alliance so he can just farm away all day like it's a single player game, instead of a PvP sandbox.

Almost like you all are just playing the wrong game.


Quote:

If it served a PvE function, you would be railing against cloaks with a passion.


Wrong. You might not have any intellectual honesty, but that doesn't mean other people don't. Such projection.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5392 - 2016-01-13 18:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
Kaarous
Or it could be you that are playing the wrong game. The only thing that is constant in EvE is change every 6 weeks. "Challenging old assumptions....delightful results"

You heard the man. Delightful results :).

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5393 - 2016-01-13 18:42:30 UTC
Jerghul wrote:

Or it could be you that is playing the wrong game.


Nope. You can tell by how I'm not the one here in this thread crusading to have cloaks broken so I can pretend it's a single player game.


Quote:

You heard the man. Delightful results :).


I am going to laugh so hard when they just remove local without any compensation. Really, this is just like the freighter thread, where they cried for years and thought they would ever get a net buff to safety. The tears fed me for a month.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5394 - 2016-01-13 19:00:23 UTC
Karous
I am sure the Developers are giving the thought of making EvE seem completely depopulated all the consideration the thought merits.

You need another hug. *Huggles*

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5395 - 2016-01-13 19:02:41 UTC
Jerghul wrote:

I am sure the Developers are giving the thought of making EvE seem completely depopulated all the consideration the thought merits.


Yes, because wormholes are totally empty, right? Roll

Trying to hold the game's development hostage by claiming you'll quit if they do anything to upset your obscene farming is really quite pathetic.

Your silly little niche is not the key to this game's survival, by any means at all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5396 - 2016-01-13 19:08:05 UTC
They seem empty quite frankly.

I did a ton of frostline sites in one not too long ago. Do you really need me to direct you to "ZOMG wormhole space is dying. Help us please CCP" threads?

I think you may have taken unsub threats from one of those threads. They are all the rage in certain corners of space.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5397 - 2016-01-13 19:18:51 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

No activating even passive modules, no probes, no functions of any kind other than propulsion and those functions useable in station.


Until I can clone jump, refit my ship, repair my ship, and access corp hangars all while cloaked, no.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#5398 - 2016-01-13 19:26:09 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

No activating even passive modules, no probes, no functions of any kind other than propulsion and those functions useable in station.


Until I can clone jump, refit my ship, repair my ship, and access corp hangars all while cloaked, no.



Don't forget swap your ship for another one
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5399 - 2016-01-13 21:46:43 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

However if the cloak isn't broken then any ship under an active cloak that can see any other ships on the grid and use *any* ship function whatsoever is broken. Those functions should be disabled and not return until the target delay is done. No activating even passive modules, no probes, no functions of any kind other than propulsion and those functions useable in station.


Actually, perhaps this is something worth considering. Probe Scanning while under a cloak makes it a tidbit too easy. Then again, those who have actually lived in wormholes know that while this may be a crutch, it helps making life bearable.

Usually, the Asteros running sites can be caught either in the site, or when hauling their phat loots out.

Would make sense that you cannot communicate with your probes though because you can't communicate with drones either when cloaked. But it's not a dealbreaker. People tend to warp to a far-off safe to do their scanning anyway.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5400 - 2016-01-13 21:57:46 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
They seem empty quite frankly.


Agreed. I don't usually like what he says, but he's got a point here. We used to go wormhole diving, we even lived in a wormhole for a month or so; and the experience came down to one of the following scenarios:

[a] there is nobody in space, nothing on DScan; we can't be bothered to run sites ourselves so we take our leave. This happens quite a lot.

[b] you try to run a site while frantically DScanning every second. Nothing ever on scan until the Astero decloaks, points you, and his Legion/Stratios friends show up.

I must admit the wormhole life was not for me - this mostly due to the fact I was alone in there. Had I had scouts on the hole entrances, I would have been perfectly safe. As it were, corp members stopped logging in and I found myself abandoned in there: without scouts I was basically gambling all the time.

Be that as it may, most of the holes we visit ARE empty. Don't ask me why. It may be a trust issue: with a corp POS, there's always the risk to log in one day and see one of the less-honourable corpies carted the entire ship maintenance array off to Jita.