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***Petition*** Petition to keep the refitting mechanic as is!
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2016-01-10 03:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
Requiescat wrote:
Varyah wrote:
stuff about refitting in whs


let me poke at the point the wh dudes are trying to get at, i think;

removing combat refitting takes away something from invaders. not an advantage, but a levelling of the playing field. when someone invades your wh system, they come to your home, and you can watch them do so, then bring appropriate ships to counter them with proper fits for such, refitted from an anchored ship maintenance array at a pos, and never have to worry about combat refitting. when invading someone's hole, you can only bring what you can fit through the hole, and many times it collapses behind you. being able to refit in combat doesn't put invaders at an advantage over defenders, it puts them on the same level, in that aspect at least, which takes away one advantage of the already stacked deck favoring defenders

Maria Dragoon wrote:
I'm sorry that you assume to know what profession I take


we assume because you don't post with your main. what are you afraid of? what reason could you have for posting with a noob corp alt? is digi going to kill your dog?


I'm also glad that you assume that because I'm in a NPC corp, that this is not my main character. Tell you a secret. All my characters at the moment are inside NPC corps at the moment. Why are they inside npc corps? Because I simply don't feel like joining another corp at the moment, you can check my corp history if you wish, you can see that I have been in other corps, and this is hardly a forum alt. Do it, log into the game, and look up my name, it shouldn't be all that hard. Now that we gotten the impression that you do a lot of assuming out of the way, I'm going to poke one massive hole in the argument above.

Why didn't you first send scouts to find out what the wormhole environment is like, and then fitting your ship to best take advantage of that. do you people really just jump head first into a wormhole without sending scouts and doing research on what the possible residences like to fly?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#202 - 2016-01-10 04:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
Requiescat, you get it at the base point. Thank god someone does!!! There's more too it than what you say, but you have the fundamental core, yes!

Maria Dragoon wrote:
Why didn't you first send scouts to find out what the wormhole environment is like, and then fitting your ship to best take advantage of that. do you people really just jump head first into a wormhole without sending scouts and doing research on what the possible residences like to fly?

Bhaals deep. No Holes Barred signature fleet. Look it up sometime. Also used by Lazerhawks. HK. TLC (when they fight). Artic Light and 3SA tried it too...pretty much every "rage rolling for fights" crew uses that tactic. Go in fast and hard. Commit.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Top Guac
Doomheim
#203 - 2016-01-10 04:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Top Guac
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Requiescat wrote:
Varyah wrote:
stuff about refitting in whs


let me poke at the point the wh dudes are trying to get at, i think;

removing combat refitting takes away something from invaders. not an advantage, but a levelling of the playing field. when someone invades your wh system, they come to your home, and you can watch them do so, then bring appropriate ships to counter them with proper fits for such, refitted from an anchored ship maintenance array at a pos, and never have to worry about combat refitting. when invading someone's hole, you can only bring what you can fit through the hole, and many times it collapses behind you. being able to refit in combat doesn't put invaders at an advantage over defenders, it puts them on the same level, in that aspect at least, which takes away one advantage of the already stacked deck favoring defenders

Maria Dragoon wrote:
I'm sorry that you assume to know what profession I take


we assume because you don't post with your main. what are you afraid of? what reason could you have for posting with a noob corp alt? is digi going to kill your dog?


I'm also glad that you assume that because I'm in a NPC corp, that this is not my main character. Tell you a secret. All my characters at the moment are inside NPC corps at the moment. Why are they inside npc corps? Because I simply don't feel like joining another corp at the moment, you can check my corp history if you wish, you can see that I have been in other corps, and this is hardly a forum alt. Do it, log into the game, and look up my name, it shouldn't be all that hard. Now that we gotten the impression that you do a lot of assuming out of the way, I'm going to poke one massive hole in the argument above.

Why didn't you first send scouts to find out what the wormhole environment is like, and then fitting your ship to best take advantage of that. do you people really just jump head first into a wormhole without sending scouts and doing research on what the possible residences like to fly?

Do you really want all WH pvp to be stale, slow, built up engagements because you need to scout ahead for a couple of days to see what the residents fly?

There's something to be said for spontaneity and for changing wormhole connections that mean you never know exactly what the chain will hold in store for you to pvp.

"Sorry guys, we can't go fight, we need to scout first".........boring

Sometimes an opportunity for fun is much better then that.
Luft Reich
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#204 - 2016-01-10 04:28:57 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
If combat refitting is so good because it awards adaptation. Then why is it that the people who are so in favour of it, are at the same time terrified of having to adapt to a world where it is changed?


God damn you are dumb....

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#205 - 2016-01-10 04:47:06 UTC
Top Guac wrote:

Do you really want all WH pvp to be stale, slow, built up engagements because you need to scout ahead for a couple of days to see what the residents fly?

There's something to be said for spontaneity and for changing wormhole connections that mean you never know exactly what the chain will hold in store for you to pvp.

"Sorry guys, we can't go fight, we need to scout first".........boring

Sometimes an opportunity for fun is much better then that.


Opportunity for fun can still be have, you can still send a small sub-cap fleet through, can still have a quick probe force thrown up to scan them down as fast as possible to see if you can nab a few and and get a few kills. That being said. hot swapping in the middle of fights doesn't create interesting and evolving game play, it creates stale gameplay on who can click that swap loadout faster then the other guy. It creates a gameplay where every ship can be a swiss army knife as soon as a carrier shows up, or has a mobile depot sitting next to them. That doesn't create interesting game-play and it only favors large fleets who can bring that kind of force and assets to bare.

But I'll tell you want. I'll make a prediction for you.

I will predict that this petition will go exactly where the Music juke box petition went after it was removed. Absolutely no where. :)

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Top Guac
Doomheim
#206 - 2016-01-10 05:00:04 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Top Guac wrote:

Do you really want all WH pvp to be stale, slow, built up engagements because you need to scout ahead for a couple of days to see what the residents fly?

There's something to be said for spontaneity and for changing wormhole connections that mean you never know exactly what the chain will hold in store for you to pvp.

"Sorry guys, we can't go fight, we need to scout first".........boring

Sometimes an opportunity for fun is much better then that.


Opportunity for fun can still be have, you can still send a small sub-cap fleet through, can still have a quick probe force thrown up to scan them down as fast as possible to see if you can nab a few and and get a few kills. That being said. hot swapping in the middle of fights doesn't create interesting and evolving game play, it creates stale gameplay on who can click that swap loadout faster then the other guy. It creates a gameplay where every ship can be a swiss army knife as soon as a carrier shows up, or has a mobile depot sitting next to them. That doesn't create interesting game-play and it only favors large fleets who can bring that kind of force and assets to bare.

But I'll tell you want. I'll make a prediction for you.

I will predict that this petition will go exactly where the Music juke box petition went after it was removed. Absolutely no where. :)

Do you even wormhole mate?

First you suggest boring gameplay as an option and then completely constrained gameplay.

Why are even suggesting a certain style of play when it's clear you don't have much clue?
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2016-01-10 05:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
Top Guac wrote:

Do you even wormhole mate?

First you suggest boring gameplay as an option and then completely constrained gameplay.

Why are even suggesting a certain style of play when it's clear you don't have much clue?


Oh, now we are going to play the, do you even wormhole card.

I been through wormholes a few times, 99% of the time, it was simply passing through, the other 1% of the time I was curious on what was on the other side and popped my head in, and was more often then not greeted by, well.. Nothing, sometimes I would scan a few sites down, and peak around to see if anyone left behind some loot, only to find angry sleeper ships. Didn't care much for it, because I'm making more then enough isk doing what I do. But from my short time inside of the wormhole, nothing much was different besides the total lack of local, and of course if you don't bring probes, you run the risk of getting stuck in said wormhole. Then sometimes you have wormholes with effects that challenge or bolster your ship depending on your fit, or straight up, the ship itself.

"First you suggest boring gameplay as an option and then completely constrained gameplay."

My counter would be of course that I find ships acting as swiss army knives as boring gameplay, and offers no real excitement when you do the research on how someone fits and flies, and prepping a counter ship, only to have them suddenly retrofit half way though the fight. Roll But hey man, keep preaching what you preach.

"Why are even suggesting a certain style of play when it's clear you don't have much clue?"

what exactly style of play does Refitting while in direct combat fall under? Pray, do enlighten me.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Top Guac
Doomheim
#208 - 2016-01-10 05:31:29 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Pray, do enlighten me.

It is doubtful that enough time exists.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2016-01-10 05:36:07 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Pray, do enlighten me.

It is doubtful that enough time exists.


So basically, you have nothing.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2016-01-10 05:49:09 UTC
+1/signed. Keep Combat refitting. Maybe a 20 second delay/session change or something, but keep combat refitting as combat refitting.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#211 - 2016-01-10 17:19:18 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Pray, do enlighten me.

It is doubtful that enough time exists.


So basically, you have nothing.

No, basically what he is saying is you will never understand, as proven by all your posts in this thread. Therefore it is a waste of time even trying; because no matter how many times he explains, how many hours he spends trying, you have already made up your mind that you are right and the masses explaining to you why you aren't, are all wrong...

Therefore it is pointless lowering ourselves to your level, because you will only beat us to death with your experience at such level.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2016-01-10 18:04:12 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Pray, do enlighten me.

It is doubtful that enough time exists.


So basically, you have nothing.

No, basically what he is saying is you will never understand, as proven by all your posts in this thread. Therefore it is a waste of time even trying; because no matter how many times he explains, how many hours he spends trying, you have already made up your mind that you are right and the masses explaining to you why you aren't, are all wrong...

Therefore it is pointless lowering ourselves to your level, because you will only beat us to death with your experience at such level.


Oh the MASSES disagree with me now huh? I guess that why there are also others in this thread trying to explain to you why it a bad mechanic. CCP decided to change this mechanic, for reasons they explain in great detail. Now this thread crops up.

Long long time ago, we use to have a music juke box. Where we could put music in the folder and play it in game. It was a fun little tool. But CCP was spending god aweful amounts of developer time to make sure it stays up to date, and had all the codecs properly set up, and could run the media files. After a while they Axed it, saying that it was costing the team more time then what it was worth.

A petition, more then one popped up in fact, and it got like I think 200 pages with of signatures AND arguments in it on why they want to keep it, or why wasting developer time was bad. Of course this was back during the six month dev cycle period. Back to my point, you know what happen? The music juke box is still axed. That is why I predict that this thread, will go absolutely no where, specially seeing that the original poster didn't start a discussion on why it should stay, he just threw up a silly petition to have people "sign" it. I made a post explaining why a mechanic is bad, to tell you the truth though. I could have said nothing because I already know that petition threads have in the past, never worked. Thus I don't see them any time in the future ever working.

So sure, make claims that I'm "stupid" or have no clue what I'm talking about, but you are right on one thing. I will beat you on experience, I have seen these things time and time again crop up, and then die. Players will adapt, and will get acustom to their new rule sets, and in turn find new ways to counter their enemy.

So please go ahead, continue your blind resolve. Nothing will happen, the changes will go through as plan. CCP is under no obligation to listen to you, or really anyone.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Sojourn
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2016-01-10 18:49:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sojourn
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Oh the MASSES disagree with me now huh? I guess that why there are also others in this thread trying to explain to you why it a bad mechanic. CCP decided to change this mechanic, for reasons they explain in great detail. Now this thread crops up.

Long long time ago, we use to have a music juke box. Where we could put music in the folder and play it in game. It was a fun little tool. But CCP was spending god aweful amounts of developer time to make sure it stays up to date, and had all the codecs properly set up, and could run the media files. After a while they Axed it, saying that it was costing the team more time then what it was worth.

A petition, more then one popped up in fact, and it got like I think 200 pages with of signatures AND arguments in it on why they want to keep it, or why wasting developer time was bad. Of course this was back during the six month dev cycle period. Back to my point, you know what happen? The music juke box is still axed. That is why I predict that this thread, will go absolutely no where, specially seeing that the original poster didn't start a discussion on why it should stay, he just threw up a silly petition to have people "sign" it. I made a post explaining why a mechanic is bad, to tell you the truth though. I could have said nothing because I already know that petition threads have in the past, never worked. Thus I don't see them any time in the future ever working.

So sure, make claims that I'm "stupid" or have no clue what I'm talking about, but you are right on one thing. I will beat you on experience, I have seen these things time and time again crop up, and then die. Players will adapt, and will get acustom to their new rule sets, and in turn find new ways to counter their enemy.

So please go ahead, continue your blind resolve. Nothing will happen, the changes will go through as plan. CCP is under no obligation to listen to you, or really anyone.

Holy ******* autism!
They aren't claims when they're true. That would be fact. And the fact is: You have no clue as to the **** you be chatting.
Gr8 b8 m8. Would r8 8/8!Roll
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2016-01-10 19:14:05 UTC
Sojourn wrote:

Holy ******* autism!
They aren't claims when they're true. That would be fact. And the fact is: You have no clue as to the **** you be chatting.
Gr8 b8 m8. Would r8 8/8!Roll


Roll

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Jacob Gault
Doomheim
#215 - 2016-01-11 05:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Gault
All they need to do it make it effect your cap like when you online or offline modules. So player opens his refit panel... soon as he changes out one module it kills other players cap. Each time one changes out it kills his cap more. by %.


25% 1st
30% 2nd
35% 3th
40% 4th
50% 5th

etc etc
Requiescat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#216 - 2016-01-11 07:05:15 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
...I have been in other corps, and this is hardly a forum alt...


corp history: 2014 character, was in e-uni for 9 months, has been in npc corp for 3 months

kb history according to zkill: 2 kills, 8 losses

you and i are done talking, friend

Seraph Essael wrote:
it is pointless lowering ourselves to your level

wish we'd realized this a few pages ago

hi i'm requiescat, and i'm your best friendā™„
Cybus Max
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#217 - 2016-01-11 15:48:41 UTC
signed
Hinata' Hyuga
WillPower and Courage Corporation
#218 - 2016-01-11 16:00:44 UTC
Signed
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2016-01-11 16:06:34 UTC
Jacob Gault wrote:
All they need to do it make it effect your cap like when you online or offline modules. So player opens his refit panel... soon as he changes out one module it kills other players cap. Each time one changes out it kills his cap more. by %.


25% 1st
30% 2nd
35% 3th
40% 4th
50% 5th

etc etc

So who gets the cap penalty in a fleet of 30 carriers?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#220 - 2016-01-11 16:24:08 UTC
adding my signature to this as well.

Refitting in triage or siege is an in depth, difficult and stressful skill that take many battles to master. The items you swap and how quickly can be the difference of life and death.

There is so much more to combat refitting in triage than just slapping on hardeners and praying to survive. careful micromanagement is key to effective triage.

Btw I have no issue with removal of refitting on ships that are not in bastion/siege/triage

So Much Space