Intergalactic Summit

Why are people making baseless assertions about slavery? I'd question that before I question what former slaves have to say about it. Even if little kin's views tend to have a little distortion to them, much like mine I suspect, I'd be more prone to simply take her word for these things rather than question them when the subject comes up.

Freeborn have a lot of views and opinions on slavery and will never truly know what they're blithering about. Especially those foreign to the Empire and Republic, who have never even known the culture it exists in.

Even my closest kin in the clan will never really understand it the way little kin does, even if we have diametrically opposed views of that understanding.

Just bear in mind, little kin, that what you call incentive will look very much like brutal coercion from just slightly different angles and there's a significant difference between freedom and a longer leash.

As long as someone can yank you back in, it's not freedom. It's just the illusion of it. A similar one that most other societies have, with a hundred different types of leashes holding people tied to their positions and status and more, for good or bad, but still an illusion.

Actual freedom happens both within and without, and a slave knows neither. I'm not entirely sure you ever knew it, for that matter, but that's personal matters that do not belong on the IGS.

What you define as a freedom is something that does not exist for anyone but God, Del'thul.

I see it continues to be pointless arguing with evidence against tenets of faith. Especially as presented by the acceptably brainwashed poster child for Reclaiming success. I may not have experienced slavery myself - far from it - but I know much of its effects through the many, many escaped slaves that seek refuge and employment in Solitude and my estates. One does not have to experience something to empathise with and understand it, otherwise we would all be very limited human beings. The whip scars were not made by excessive hugging or the latest fashions, I feel sure.

The only test for the claims of slavery is a simple one: give the slaves the choice. If this wonderland of drug fuelled, cuddly coercion leads to productive and fulfilled shoppers as proposed, then let those happy people make their own choice as to their future.

Oh, sorry, that's 'freedom'.

Since the discussion takes its turn towards freedom, I would like to remind, that a freedom is a physical concept of a state of a matter or system with maximal entropy, i.e. a conglomeration of evenly distributed particles without actual bonding.

Freedom applied to a human in a social sphere (without that part that human body should be disintegrated into completely free atoms) is a dehumanizing phenomenon, which is a destructive force against law, order and human bonding such as loyalty, love and friendship.

It is obvious that only useless individualistic and criminal elements can find freedom to be a positive vector of society development. Minmatars' affinity towards freedom can be attributed to their highly criminalized society.

In this case slavery used on a Minmatar people can be visioned as a penal activity, that would hold this criminality in check. People who were grown in a society with criminal and pseudo-criminal ideals will bear them to the end of their lives and will pass them to their children as well. You can't just simply "re-educate" them. You might possibly teach a minmatar from republic to read, but you won't make him to respect culture, civilization and won't make him think rationally.

Thus the only way of making minmatars into humans would be growing them in a controlled environment (as slaves in the Empire), so their descendants could be reincorporated into civilized societies as normal peoples.

But why should anyone have to, Samira? Your viewpoint is that slavery is a penal sentence, levied against those who have committed no crime, because centuries earlier, their ancestors were judged to have 'turned away' from a god they never knew, and whose existence you cannot demonstrate. A peaceful culture met with violence, even though the evidence shows that if they had been approached in a civilized manner, they would likely have responded far more positively to the message of the Amarr.

In most cultures, you have to prove a crime's been committed before you mete out punishment for it.

You say only god enjoys freedom. But there are quite a number of us who are free, and manage to live and work in harmony and cooperation, without any kind of threats hanging over our heads.

You poor clown. Must be horrible to be a slave to your own madness. Each time you speak it's like a cry out for release from your miserable existance.

Thought so, thanks for confirming it!

I'm not sure that her point was to discuss the mistreatment or mismanagement of slaves or workers as unjustified abuses against either would be a failure of management be they Holder or Employer. It was I think more a response to the assertions that slaves have a poor work ethic or do not make for quality labourers.

In my experience, though it is by no means indicative of the universal slave populations held by the Amarr, that could not be further from the truth and that this working ethic is often unimpeachable.