EVE General Discussion

This here is the issue.

You played space games (like most of us), you go "which is the best space game atm", notice others on the horizon and realise that those might be better/different at being a space game and that this might make you switch. That means that EVE's main attraction to you is it being a space game.

To others it's a PVP sandbox that happens to be a space game, many of us like the space theme although some won't really care but the main reason we're here is because it's a pvp centric sandbox that forces and allows us to thrive vs others, competition. There are no PVP sandboxes like it on the market nor will there be one any time soon and even if there would be one it's very doubtful it'll be of the same level and quality as this one.

To you SC means "crap, I might have to switch and I don't want to because I've played EVE for so long I'm quite invested into it". To us SC means "what, you mean that PVErs and people who don't add to or care for the sandbox will be leaving? Show me where this is a bad thing". We understand that some people will be leaving, we understand that this will mean CCP will have to change direction and lose deadweight. The point is that we're fine with that.

Actually, the complaining is about the abundant amount of bugs - which indeed are there and plaguing some missions.
As for the universe feeling empty, this happens when you model a REAL galaxy, ours galaxy.

The whole EvE Online universe compares in size to a corner of our galaxy so small that you have to zoom in several times just to notice it.

Well, I am a sci-fi enthusiast. I PvPed in EvE for a little while (until my small scale PvP corp was active) then got bored, all I'd find and even got in were the boooooooooooring "wake up at 2.30am, we got this structure to shoot".

If this is "PvP", well to be honest I prefer to PvP in Warhammer / DAoC and even in Darkfall which is well harsher than EvE.




To me SC means EvE minus something, like EvE means SC minus something. I'd love if both had no "minus".

Also, beware, dead weight wash water risks including the baby some times.

"Bots"

Your definition.

No one is manually piloting bots, or they are not bots. And you think I am an idiot.

Next are you going to tell me the afk cloaker killed you?

This had really me think again and again. It's true, whereas I love a lot of EvE features, I joined EvE because I was looking for a PvP game (my PvP game at that time went under). However I got turned off by how time expensive it was to find small scale / 1 v 1 PvP, so I turned to industry and trading (and way much more, I have seen tons of EvE features, from WH living to FW to 0.0 sov and NPC area life...). But the "space enthusiast" in me never really found true satisfaction.

When I embraced exploration, I expected it to be more... rewarding. I enjoyed the scanning process etc. but you know what... it led to pretty pathetic findings. Be it an over-nerfed mining field to some more or less useful components.

Instead in ED (a game lacking in many other departments), I can truly fit a ship for true exploration. I can find curious stuff, like the WISE 0855−0714 Sub-Brown Dwarf on Wikipedia or a book and then actually travel a looooot and go watch it with my eyes! Or a neutron star or even a black hole! EvE could really implement some more interesting objects and stuff to do with them. Binary stars, high gravity stuff that would alter PvP (I am not talking about WHs here) and much more!

Would this "ruin EvE" like some fear? I don't think so!

In EVE PVE is a means to an end: fund yourself (for the next bit of PVP) and because of that (and the limitations that come with the whole large scale combat framework) PVE is limited, without story or meaning. In other games (and E:D) PVE is there for the sake of PVE itself because that is what the game really has to offer and because of that, and the small sale of the game, it can (and has to) offer "meaningful" PVE.

Granted, E:D exploration sounds really awesome. My Asp Explorer with 4 SRV is somewhere completely silly, I didn't go for the obvious targets I just pointed in a general direction and went "I'll go that way" but can you see yourself doing this for 2 years? 5? How about 12 years? It's the same with SC "oh I'll have Squadron 42, PVE!", sounds awesome but then (per usual) people will rush through it, repeat it 2-3 times and go "well that was limited, we need more content!". People are looking at things from the hype pov, it's all fresh, new and their imagination hasn't yet been crushed by the obvious reality that PVE is very repetitive and (just like a single player game) pretty much meaningless in and of itself.

Besides, given the exploration example: how much would EVE have to change in order to stop you from playing E:D and doing it within the EVE universe? Would that even be possible? How much effort would have to go into that and what implications would it have for the other parts of EVE? I'll answer that for you: for the people who love E:D for what it's really good at EVE could never change enough for those to stick around. Would CCP try it, and thus not succeed with the end result of you still leaving, then in that process they alienated the game so much they're also risking of losing the players who ARE enjoying EVE (for better and for worse).

By frantically trying to focus on "extra stuff" which won't result in the aimed goal (making EVE good at what it's bad at, to keep those players from leaving) they wasted time that could have been used to make EVE better at what it's already good at and make the players who aren't leaving happier. A good analogy in this case is trying to dual tank shield and armour (forgoing the fact that in some very specific cases this actually works), it's much better to choose to EITHER tank armour or should and then get really good at it than to somehow tank both, which means you lose so much focus and options your ship becomes a lot less capable. You can't be AND a large scale pvp focused sandbox that relies on player interaction and content AND at the same time offer meaningful PVE just like how other, full focussed PVE, games/MMOs can.

I'm not saying that CCP shouldn't improve PVE, it clearly needs it but then so does every other aspect of the game, what I AM saying is that the "change EVE to how some other game works or else I'll leave" is a) a silly approach, b) would result in losing focus and c) is impossible to achieve. EVE is a pvp centric sandbox first and a space game second, proven by the submarine mechanics.


On your statement that solo or small gang pvp takes time and effort, if you can waste time in E:D fuel scooping at some distant sun you can also plan PVP in EVE :)

It was discussed in the PvE round table at EVE Vegas. Sugar talks about it a bit here.

He already pointed the information. I will just comment that the ideas to improve PvE are...

a) belated to 2017 at least, and likely won't be fully implemented until 2018
b) they're coming from a developer who haves no clue on what it means to be a PvEr or a highseccer, and so the ideas include things as remarcable as having good standing with one Empire meaning that all other Empires will hate you.

Reading that PvE was handled to CCP Affinity was like "oh God, it HAD to be HER, of all developers...?"

(Disclaimer: I hold a grudge against CCP Affinity and CCP RedDawn since they made a decission that ghost sites in highsec would have zero chance to drop the best rewards, as means so PvErs "moved out of their comfort zone". Of course that didn't happened, but CCP Affinity established a new record in arrogance by answering in that way to a concerned player)

might not have understood that quote correctly then. That is possible, I read the "sadly" part as being negative.



Not be rude, but even you can see that this quote is BS I am sure. So I am a follower because I want you to document your claims, and you are a leader because you create Facts, based on your own observations? Working harder does not change that without an assessment of the validity of your result it has no meaning.

I do wonder when people will realize that PCU is pretty worthless as a metric ...
... because it only ever reflects the USTZ anyway.

At least so far. I guess that's going to change!