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Will CCP change their mind and once again make EVE for Linux?

Author
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#21 - 2015-12-08 20:32:34 UTC
Before today I was using the repair tool and the exefile.exe to launch eve. The update broke our installs, so I upgraded to win 1.8rc3 and it fixed the broken client and launcher for me.

Yes, the old "native" client was not native, it was a Cedega wraparound.

Im actually happy they dumped it, I went to pay for Cedega for 6 months and then i was like **** that, and learned wine.

Vulkan sounds hot.

Once you learn Linux, you can even have one client on each desktop (not monitor) and swap through them with a neato graphic effect.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

mr dumpface
Doomheim
#22 - 2015-12-11 02:43:30 UTC
id resub if there was a native linux client, trying to get eve working on my linux machine is too much of a pain in the ass with wine (can't get it past the launcher no matter what i try)

so one of my subs has run out and the other im letting run out after switching from windows to linux
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#23 - 2015-12-11 04:34:15 UTC
mr dumpface wrote:
id resub if there was a native linux client, trying to get eve working on my linux machine is too much of a pain in the ass with wine (can't get it past the launcher no matter what i try)

No, really?

I just installed the latest wine, created a fresh prefix, did a d3d11 override and ran an existing tq exefile. It DoDed whatever it wanted in a newly created SharedCache and successfully loaded the client. Didn't do anything else.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#24 - 2015-12-12 10:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Neuntausend wrote:
CCP never ported Eve to Linux - they just bundled it with a proprietary wine fork, and then dropped it again because the linux community can do better with actual wine. ...
I seem to remember that there was a native client but it was in the dark old days of OpenGL having a major flaw, while Linux was not user friendly. Pretty obvious why they dropped it.
However, much of EVE is platform independent and the main aspect would be making it OpenGL friendly again.

... and yeah, SteamOS+Linux, just look at the list of growing games there.

Wurm recently let people host their own servers with all their code exposed. Veterans poured out but this 600 players online at a time game shot up another 150+ just because of the Steam store factor.
I suspect that EVE could do with that sort of player base growth in the same proportion.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Boyamin
African Atomic.
HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE NINJA AssAssIn SQUAD eSports
#25 - 2015-12-12 12:58:04 UTC
Worth noting that CCP is infrequently updating a webgl client:

https://github.com/ccpgames/ccpwgl

So, they already have an opengl engine even if it's more of a showcase engine. It's probably a lot more work though porting the network/phsyics/game code (maybe it depends on some funny windows libraries).
ASTORBG
INVARIANT TENSOR
#26 - 2015-12-12 17:28:31 UTC
EVE native version for Linux? Yeah ... I wish ... but who knows;)
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-12-30 21:02:38 UTC
Migrating to OpenGL would be good because it runs on all platforms, so it would be easier to deploy on Macs and players would not have to run emulators on Linux. Also, I think OpenGL is just easier to use and faster than Direct X anyway.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#28 - 2015-12-30 22:27:49 UTC
Droidster wrote:
Migrating to OpenGL would be good because it runs on all platforms, so it would be easier to deploy on Macs and players would not have to run emulators on Linux. Also, I think OpenGL is just easier to use and faster than Direct X anyway.
Some games ... wait for it ... allow for both!!! Shocked

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Whitehound
#29 - 2015-12-30 23:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Boyamin wrote:
Worth noting that CCP is infrequently updating a webgl client:

https://github.com/ccpgames/ccpwgl

So, they already have an opengl engine even if it's more of a showcase engine. It's probably a lot more work though porting the network/phsyics/game code (maybe it depends on some funny windows libraries).

They hardly ever touch the core code and I am certain they do not wish to come anywhere near it for the purpose of porting it. Too much is at risk of breaking.

We did have a Linux client in the past, but its graphics were always behind the Windows version. Only once we were forced to use WINE did we actually get an EVE under Linux that was on the same level in visual quality as the Windows client was. EVE under WINE turned out to be the much better client for Linux. With WINE did we even get the patches on the same day as the Windows client did... This may seem obvious now, but back then was it a big deal for us. It put the lit on the native Linux client for good. I am grateful for the experience CCP gave us with the native Linux client regardless of the outcome. It was a good time even when WINE is now the better choice.

Remembering how long it took for CCP to implemented DirectX11 graphics for Windows and then imagining how long it would take them to implement it for a native Linux client makes it a simple decision for me: no, but thank you. We have been there, it was more than attempted, it had been done, but it was not as good as we hoped it would be.

To try it again with even more diversity in Linux distributions, graphics drivers and now the DX11 visuals makes it only a harder task while we still have the choice of the WINE solution. The effort that needs to go into a native Linux client is less justifiable now than it was back then.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2016-01-06 14:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Just throwing that in here once more: There never was a native Linux Client. Back then, two versions of the Windows client existed: Standard and Premium. The Premium Client had improved textures, shaders and effects, while the Standard Client looked like it was still 2004. Now, what they did for Linux was, that they bundled the Standard Client with Cedega (similar to what they are doing for Mac users these days with Cider) and called it the "Linux Client". Cedega is nothing but an inferior, proprietary Wine fork. Therefore, even the so called "Linux Client" technically was nothing but the Windows Client running (badly) under Wine.

If I remember correctly, they dumped it around the time they dumped the Standard Client for Windows as well. Instead of getting the Premium Client to work with Cedega or maintaining two versions of the Windows Client just for Linux support, they just scratched Linux support alltogether. And it was the right move. Even back then barely anyone used that Cedega piece of garbage. Many players had switched to the Premium Client on Wine already, even with the "Linux Client" still available.

Point still stands, though: In order to get an actually native Client for both Linux and Mac, Eve would have to run on OpenGL. While I think this would be possible, I do not think it's going to happen. The Mac users are (kind of) taken care of, and seem to be confident enough with the Cider chimera. And we linux folk can manage just fine on our own. CCP wouldn't gain much by properly porting the game to Linux/Mac. It would be really cool if it happened, but from an economic viewpoint, there's just no good reason to do it.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#31 - 2016-01-06 18:44:48 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
... but from an economic viewpoint, there's just no good reason to do it.
Steam + Ubuntu Software Centre.

No one else finding the client clunky with the new changes and our lack of proper Wine 64 bit support etc?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Whitehound
#32 - 2016-01-09 04:25:39 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Just throwing that in here once more: There never was a native Linux Client. ...

Point still stands, though: In order to get an actually native Client for both Linux and Mac, Eve would have to run on OpenGL. ...

EVE itself uses Python, which is not a Microsoft product. So it is also not running natively under Windows.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2016-01-09 17:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
It doesn't require an emulator or additional compatibility layer to run on Windows, at least. Also, Eve is not purely written in Python. After all, you don't call "python exefile.py", but "exefile.exe". There are parts MSVC and of course it makes use of Direct X, which are both Windows native and Windows exclusive. If you take a look at the files coming with the client, you'll find a whole bunch of .dll and .exe files, which are in fact native Windows binaries (and those were part of the "Linux Client" as well, believe it or not). Yes, the Python parts require the Python PVM to run and are therefore not exactly running "natively". But as a whole, Eve is as close to "Windows native" as it gets when Python is involved.
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