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What's the incentive to PVP?
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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#41 - 2016-01-07 20:20:44 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel...


The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked.


Erm? what?
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#42 - 2016-01-07 20:23:21 UTC
Amarrchecko wrote:


TL/DR = Why PVP?



It's a game, thus it is about having fun.

PVP is fun for me. In EVE it's also interesting, unlike in FPS or other types of games, because there are persistent effects and genuine consequences - losing ships, losing ISK, a huge range of tools and tactics and variables to contend with and an effectively infinite battlefield.

If it wasn't fun it would not be worth spending time doing.

There are lots of things in EVE that are no fun at all to me. Hence I don't do trading, mining, hauling, manufacturing...I have a job, I don't need to have a second job "playing" a game. Perfectly happy for other people to do so if that floats their boat.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
Fa Xian
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2016-01-07 21:33:31 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Fa Xian wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel...


The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked.


Erm? what?


You say you had to work to get something. Then you lament how easy it was for another person. Could it be easy because you provided a lot of guidance and help?

Who helped you get the Raven? No one? So is it a surprise it was harder then?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#44 - 2016-01-07 22:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Fa Xian wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Fa Xian wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel...


The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked.


Erm? what?


You say you had to work to get something. Then you lament how easy it was for another person. Could it be easy because you provided a lot of guidance and help?

Who helped you get the Raven? No one? So is it a surprise it was harder then?


Nonsense. I had help for my 1st Raven from the guy that introduced me to the game (in the same way I helped this other guy by loaning him a t1 battleship). I had to earn my 1st Navy Raven the same way the new guy earned his 1st Machariel, via PVE.

You telling me you don't understand what I'm saying? If so, let me put it this way: The guy I helped spent 2 days in 2013 doing what it took me about 90 days to do in 2007. An 88 day difference. Part of why it took so long is that I whelped 3 Ravens as a noob (when losing a t1 BS meant something), unlike my new bro, I didn't have an entire logistics squad to broadcast to.

Nowadays people are starting to roam in carriers out of boredom. It's easier to get a carrier hull today via pve than it was to get a t1 BS back in 2009/10. Under the right circumstances a FW mission blitzer can earn a carriers worth of LP in 4-7 hours using nothing more than 1 character in a disposable Stealth Bomber.

The point here is that CCP has made it too easy to make isk (both personally and as an organization) in this game ,even right out of the gate, we train noobs to use Navy Vexors now to make as much with a couple weeks training as pro mission blitzers with deep game knowledge did in 2009. This makes many experiences less valuable than they once were.

There is no reason beyond boredom or the need to stoke thine epeen to fight over anything if everything is provided so easily.
Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2016-01-07 22:37:56 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651

OP is a serial troll, kids.


Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other.
Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2016-01-07 22:44:02 UTC
Ah well. I guess maybe I'm just located in the wrong area of the game if I want to find more meaning in my PVP.

I also think I'm in love with Jenna Cool
Leeluvv
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2016-01-07 22:52:11 UTC
Ginnie wrote:
Personally, I think a lot of MMORPGs struggle to "find a point" to PVP...beyond the "fun of it." That's reason we have FW at all.

Anyone remember Dark Age of Camelot? That had some awesome PVP...


http://camelotunchained.com
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#48 - 2016-01-07 23:27:17 UTC
Amarrchecko wrote:
Ah well. I guess maybe I'm just located in the wrong area of the game if I want to find more meaning in my PVP.


You're in sov null, right?

Much of what goes on out there is, IMO, psychological as well as physical, on the spot PvP. Sov alliances have their dedicated pvp'rs and then they have their miners and people who prefer to rat more, and for the enemy to get in there and wear down those PvE players repeatedly can be a win over the long run.

So for the people doing it, it serves two goals, kills for the killboard and (hopefully) slowly weakening the enemy from within.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#49 - 2016-01-08 00:12:44 UTC
Amarrchecko wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651

OP is a serial troll, kids.


Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other.


Choices > consequences. If you don't like being called on whatever it is you do (or have done) then you shouldn't have done it.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2016-01-08 00:27:45 UTC
Meaning is a fluid concept. PVP will have different meaning for everyone that plays the game. For me, it's about enjoying EVE to its fullest. For a while there, last year, it was about defending R64s from NCdot. Let me tell you why those two are different.

Structure warfare sucks. I can't stand it. I'd much rather be out looking for fights for no other reason than the fight itself, even solo, than conforming to someone else's idea of meaning.

That being said, what sets this game apart is that it's basically a PVP arena, where everything you do is in competition with someone else. Wanted to fit up a bunch of Kestrels yesterday, I'd bought everything I needed except the rigs. I opened the market to get them, and found there just weren't enough for the fit I was throwing together. People need to supply them, and then I compete with the demand against other people who want to purchase them. Or, I can try to look after my ships better and not lose them so I don't have to buy new rigs...

Which, again, brings us back to meaning. I'll tell you what makes EVE 'real'. I was an SWTOR player for a while, but I've been playing EVE for longer. One thing that always amused me on SWTOR was that when I died, I'd respawn with ALL the gear I had on a moment ago. It'd be damaged, but a quick trip to an NPC vendor took care of that. No need for resources, no need to find a player to help with repairs, and no need to replace my gear.

In EVE, when you lose it, it's gone. There's your meaning, a meaning that we all share.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2016-01-08 00:30:57 UTC
Also, as everyone else has made clear, PVP is just fun. No other game can provide the heart-racing adrenalin rush this one can give you, knowing that permanent shiploss is one tiny mistake away. In no other game can one experience the sheer thrill of surviving a battle at ~10% structure and getting away after heavy combat.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#52 - 2016-01-08 01:16:44 UTC
Tiny pleasures for tiny minds. It's been with us since the dawning of people-kind. Like sitting through two hours of a George Lucas film, then spending the next year arguing about it. There's no sense in telling anyone George Lucas sucks as a writer, and his movies are marginal at best. NooOOOOoooOOOOooooo. They're vicariously rising and falling through blind repetition.

That's why we're looking at using chimps to actually become the culture.

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#53 - 2016-01-08 01:25:37 UTC
You built a pos tower to mine this moon. You gathered newbros and taught them to mine and rat in safety in the surrounding systems.
You set upon roaming explorers and hostile travellers, made friends with locals.
Then i arrived, with my gang of spider tanking Domis, reinforcing your tower.
You called upon your friends to defend the tower, but i had friends too who dropped dreads.
You scattered across the map, after filling local with abuse. We replied with .jpgs from popular entertainment showing women crying, or being pelted with hotdogs.
The day your precious tower was destroyed was the most momentous event in the year for you....
...for me, it was a Tuesday.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2016-01-08 01:30:08 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Amarrchecko wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651

OP is a serial troll, kids.


Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other.


Choices > consequences. If you don't like being called on whatever it is you do (or have done) then you shouldn't have done it.


I expect you'll deliver another 4-5 troll threads to substantiate your serial troll accusation then. It's not like you said "OP has posted a less-than-super-serious thread once or twice, kids."
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2016-01-08 01:50:25 UTC
Since I came to Eve specifically to PvP, I don't really need an incentive. The idea of being a space pirate appealed to me so I began playing with that goal in mind. Like so many others, I got sidetracked just trying to make isk enough to watch a Rifter explode 20 seconds into any fight. Took me too long to get out and PvP.

Eventually I broke away and went to low sec and typed YAAARRRR into local. Because I play this one character, and only this one acct- my actions had real consequences. My sec status dropped and pretty soon it was hard to do 'safe' PvE in high sec and pirate in low sec.
That drove me to make friends that could keep me supplied (more interesting than just rolling an alt to dodge sec status). Eventually it drove me to -10 with everyone open to shoot me.

So for me, part of the incentive was to drive the 'story' for my character. Because I didn't dodge the consequences of being an outlaw, my game was altered dynamically, which was just fun to play.
When I got tired of being shoot-on-sight for all of New Eden I moved to Sov Null- if anyone can kill you on sight, might as well go where sec status doesn't matter.

The real reason I went to Sov was to take part in the really big fights. I spent a year in low sec maxing out core skills instead of chasing larger and larger PvE ships. So when I moved to null, I had solid skills and just needed to train for the shiny hulls.
The best part of sov life is the SRP. Given that, there is no good reason NOT to PvP. I don't care if I lose a bil isk Blops- I will be reimbursed for it. I only need to PvE to initially buy a doctrine ship- after that it is basically insured at 100% by my alliance.

Eve's PvP is amazing. It's PvE is pretty bad. Guess which one I am incentivized to do......
(credit where it's do- CCP has been working on the AI)
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#56 - 2016-01-08 09:54:44 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Nowadays, for too many people, it's only anymore about their own fun and entertainment.

People remove meaning from everything nowadays, changing it all into something shallow.

Is this thread really about PvP, or actually about people?



Players are people, therefore.... yes?
Arya Ikahrus
#57 - 2016-01-08 11:05:30 UTC
Amarrchecko wrote:
What's the incentive to PVP?


If you're old and rich, not much I guess?
Me, I'm relatively young and definitely poor. If I'm shooting you it's because I want or need something and if I lose I'll feel it.

If I made it to a trillion isk with a hangar full of pimp fit bling and nothing to do but shoot people I'd probably stop logging in, PvP is fun in Eve, but a large part of it for me is the risk of loss.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2016-01-08 13:12:45 UTC
Amarrchecko wrote:
Mister Ripley wrote:
Fun for fun's sake is not enough? Like.. you know... sex, food, drugs, music, sports, etc...


http://www.eveonline.com/

"Eve Online. Real Life Science Fiction."

When was the last time you read scifi where people fought each other just for ***** and giggles?


I'm not saying that fun for fun's sake isn't enough. But CCP doesn't try to sell this game as a "come PVP in Eve because PVP in Eve is fun" ... it tries to sell this game as "come struggle in the vast universe of Eve, where your every move is PVP and you are always doing something meaningful to carve out your own niche in the biggest sandbox ever!"



Technically... every major war ever. Reasonings behind wars typically devolve into "x leader(s) wanted to kill y leader(s) or take their stuff" Yes yes opinions blah blah blah.. its still technically true for most wars.

But on to serious matters.. Eve is a sandbox. Ergo PVP is also a sandbox. In sandboxes you dont get tiered rewards for doing something. You craft and choose your own rewards. What you want is a tiered PVP system ala wow, wildstar, etc. IE: I kill X noobs and get better gear so i can kill a new class of noobs!". This is not how eve works. Just go blow sh*t up and use the brainpan.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2016-01-08 17:14:41 UTC
Lots of PVP is over control of solar systems and regions. For instance, JUMP-N, my alliance, is currently involved in a war against Dead Terrorists. It's more complex than that of course, with plenty of other entities being involved but from our POV that's how it's going.

You want meaningful PVP? Find some Khanid or Genesis solar systems with both good moons and agents (maybe a whole constellation) then oust everyone who lives there and you have a home that makes tons of ISK. Now fight off people who come to claim said home Pirate
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2016-01-08 17:18:20 UTC
Arya Ikahrus wrote:
Amarrchecko wrote:
What's the incentive to PVP?


If you're old and rich, not much I guess?
Me, I'm relatively young and definitely poor. If I'm shooting you it's because I want or need something and if I lose I'll feel it.

If I made it to a trillion isk with a hangar full of pimp fit bling and nothing to do but shoot people I'd probably stop logging in, PvP is fun in Eve, but a large part of it for me is the risk of loss.

At a trillion ISK you start doing titan Drive-bys, and there's still very real risk. Or small gang in AT ships worth up to 200 billion each :)