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Lasers Laser and more Lasers

Author
Aleixo Vane
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-01-06 04:25:33 UTC
All,

I've done a fair amount of research but can't find a nice summary, or even detail, explanation of the different laser types.

I know the difference between pulse and beam, but the variety is killing me.

But there are so many types:

Heavy pulse laser I
Focal afocal pluse maser
Focused anodal pulse particle stream
Focused modal pulse laser I
etc, etc....


What's the difference? Or are they that different?

Do I just buy the cheapest and learn as I go about the others...?

I'm flying a Maller....no plan on what to do...I know the Maller is a tank-type ship.

Any help, links, etc appreciated.

Thanks,
AV

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#2 - 2016-01-06 05:14:05 UTC
They're the same as every other type of turret in the game.

There's a long range type with lower DPS and worse tracking, Beam lasers and a short range type with higher DPS and better tracking, Pulse lasers.

within those two categories there are different "sizes", for example Focused Medium Pulse Laser I is a "small" medium pulse laser, whereas a Heavy Pulse Laser I is a "large" medium pulse laser.

All of the variants are just weapons of different Meta Level, which broadly speaking indicates their quality.

Also if you can't tell the difference then you obviously haven't looked at their actual attributes, because it should be immediately apparent that they all have wildly varying fitting requirements, damage multipliers, tracking speeds and capacitor usage.
Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#3 - 2016-01-06 06:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Centis Adjani
Here is a summary (table) and explanation of the laser types: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Lasers

And additional explanation for their ammo, the crystals:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Laser_crystals_%28Ammunition%29

All weapon systems come in 4 ammo size categories for different ship types (exceptions exist):
- XL - Extra Large - for Capital Ships
- L - Large - for Battleships
- M - Medium - for Battlecruisers, Cruisers
- S - Small - for Frigates

So for your Maller (Cruiser) you will choose only Lasers which will load ammo in M size.

These are following from the table at wiki website above:
Focused Medium Pulse Laser Medium 8 GJ 9,000+3,000 m 4.05 s 2x 0.09 rad/sec 125 m
Heavy Pulse Laser Medium 13.33 GJ 10,000+4,000 m 5.25 s 3x 0.08125 rad/sec 125 m
Quad Light Beam Laser Medium 5.45 GJ 8,000+1,000 m 3.15 s 1.5x 0.081 rad/sec 125 m
Focused Medium Beam Laser Medium 11.67 GJ 17,000+6,000 m 4.80 s 2x 0.042 rad/sec 125 m

You see they have different fitting requirements (energy consumption), different shoot ranges
(depending on crystals used - the different laser crystal types 'M' give you different shoot ranges),
different fire rate, different tracking.

Fit the laser and ammo type appropriate to your fighting style and appropriate your skills.
If you fight in kiting style from far away to avoid being hit by enemy weapons fit the weapon and
ammo for longer range but less damage. If you have a great tank and fight close to the enemy
then fit the short range weapon and ammo.
While the long range weapons do less damage. So there is a trick to use the short range weapons
for longer range fights: Fit Tracking Enhancers/Tracking Computers.
These enhance your weapons range and other weapon attributes.
To enhance your damage and fire rate, you can fit Heat Sinks.

For general information about fitting of ships take a look at the links in my following posting:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6254081#post6254081
SetSail ForEpicFail
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-01-06 07:28:09 UTC
you have normal t1 then few meta t1 and t2 they may differ some in cpu/grid use to fit and stats, read under attributes info what exactly are the difference, ontop of that you have different crystals (for laser) to change ranges and damage, usually longrange means low damage and short range means high damage
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-01-06 18:13:55 UTC
As with any gun, within a size class (small, medium, large, X large) you have different calibers of guns.

The only confusing part is that the other guns have the easier to understand numerical differences.

We all know that a 200mm gun is bigger then a 150mm.

With lasers you have to 'learn' the names

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-01-06 18:43:11 UTC
This link has excellent material on turrets in general. There are charts that outline the differences between the turret names and types. The Energy Turret Comparison is at the bottom.

Eve University Turrets

It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.

Memphis Baas
#7 - 2016-01-06 22:31:04 UTC
As it's been said, lasers, like the other weapons, have 2 versions:

short range = pulse lasers
long range = beam lasers

Otherwise, for any weapon, you can click the i info button on it and look at the Variations tab, to see the different grades that you can get. We usually categorize them as follows:

Tech 1: Heavy Pulse Laser I - it says "I" at the end, and that makes it T1. T1 items can be manufactured by players from just minerals that they mine.

Meta: Has a "fancy" name, f.ex. Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I, and it's slightly better than the base T1 laser, while requiring the same skills to use as the base T1 version. These drop from various missions or NPC rats, and are thus somewhat rare and more expensive. Typically the more expensive it is, the better damage it does, but not always (some things are expensive just cause they're rare).

Tech 2: Heavy Pulse Laser II. Has the II in the name and as an orange tag on the icon. T2 has better firepower than T1 or any meta, but requires higher skill prerequisites to use. T2 stuff is manufactured by players, but the process requires advanced materials from salvage, planetary industy, moon mining, etc., and blueprint copies that can only be obtained from the invention process. As a result T2 stuff is pretty expensive.

Faction: Ammatar Navy Heavy Pulse Laser. Has a pirate faction or empire right in its name, and a green tag on its icon. Skill requirements are like for T1, damage is better than T2. Can only be obtained from LP stores, and are quite expensive.

Officer: 'Joust' Heavy Pulse Laser. Fancy name and green tag with an o on its icon. As above, skill requirements are T1, performance is better than T2. Rare drops from rare boss ("officer") NPCs that only have a small chance of showing up, and an even smaller chance of dropping the loot. Extremely expensive.


If you're a newbie, you're expected to use the very cheap T1 modules to start with. Also, when veterans tell newbies what to fit on a ship, they typically use the T1 names (to not confuse the newbie). However, it's always better to find the 'meta' version of the guns and fit those, if you can afford them, because they do more damage.

Once you've trained some skills and meet the prerequisites for fitting T2, you should always fit T2; the DPS increase is significant, and T2 is pretty much the standard for PVP, if you want to get any kills.

Officer and Faction weapons and modules are considered "bling", you will be hunted and even suicide-ganked just for a chance to loot the stuff off your ship wreck. Veterans do use these weapons when they need to squeeze the absolute last 1% of performance out of their ship; typically in conjunction with high-grade implants, boosters, fleet links (buffs from other ships), and crazy overheating of modules. Some ships are so expensive that it makes sense to spare absolutely no expense to save the ship, so to speak, so officer and faction modules do have their uses. Also, clueless but rich PVE / mission runners may use them, because they're clueless, and rich.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-01-06 22:58:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Tachs.

Just fit T2 Tachs and never have any power grid/CPU/CAP ever again :D
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2016-01-07 00:58:24 UTC
If you read through the attributes it will tell you. I know that takes some time but you'll have to get familiar with them one way or another.

So I will set aside meta type since that is the easiest to work out.

There is a compare UI that you can get to at the bottom of the variants tab in the show info UI that can be very helpful.

Beyond that each weapon type has a few choices. One of the words in the title will indicate meta. So for lazors I believe that Modulated is meta 4 and Anode meta 3 etc... Then you will have a selection of a basic sub-class. The way that I keep track of those is by looking at the Tech 2 or meta 5 version since each sub-class will have one of those. So basically compare the tech 2 versions and if you are looking for meta 4 then get the Modulated version of that tech 2 gun.

I'll use medium beams as an example:
So you have 3 basic choices: "Quad Light Beam", "Heavy Beam" and "Focused Medium Beam". Of those one will be the fastest tracking, the lowest fitting requirements, the lowest cap usage, the fastest RoF but the lowest paper dps. The other 2 choices go up from there.

Typically for long range turrets the "largest" choice is often very difficult to fit without using some fitting mods. Also the tracking of the largest one often makes it difficult to hit things well without some help or unless those things are bigger than you.

In the end it really depends on what you are doing. If you want to hit stuff smaller than you it is likely that going with a "smaller" version of the turret will be better for you.

One example that I am very familiar with the Large artillery. So with the 1400s they have a small clip that holds half the ammo of the 1200s and with 10 second reloads it makes a huge difference. They also have a hard time landing good hits on anything not large and / or sitting still. They have the highest Alpha in the game but because of that they have a very long cycle time and in PvE this leads to lots of overkill which is wasted dps and typically not a good thing.

So most Minmatar PvEers will tell you to stay away from 1400s and use the 1200s. It is similar with the 720mm's of the medium atty's.

I could walk you through each weapon class like this but you really need to look at it for yourself. Also this kind of thing is better done over voice coms when I can link you stuff and talk about it or on a video.

Speaking of which I might have to learn how to record game vids and make some tutorials on this kind of stuff.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Aleixo Vane
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-01-07 04:04:08 UTC
Thanks everyone for taking time to reply with details, links and guidance. I have a lot more to learn (obviously) but now a better course of study.

I will, of course, avoid wearing any "bling!"

Best,
AVane
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#11 - 2016-01-07 04:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Oh, you can fly bling, but only when pimpin'.

I fly bling when I roll up to some guys crib to shoot up the place. But that's a different story to flying bling when you roll out to do your 406th L4 mission.

Don't bring out the goods just to take your dog for a walk. Save it for when it's necessary.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#12 - 2016-01-07 04:42:31 UTC
Right click -> show info
Variants tab -> compare

Then sort by meta level and check whatever differences you want. You can then drag different modules in there to compare beam versus pulse f.e.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-01-07 12:07:01 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Oh, you can fly bling, but only when pimpin'.

I fly bling when I roll up to some guys crib to shoot up the place. But that's a different story to flying bling when you roll out to do your 406th L4 mission.

Adding a little bling to a mission running ship can help increase the rate at which you finish missions thus increase the rate at which you make isk. They can pay for them selves in not too long and in the case of burner missions can be the difference between you being able to do the mission and having to pass.

Of course if you undock from the SoE station in Osmon in an officer fit faction BS you probably won't last very long before you are ganked.

That is where the risk versus reward comes in and the OP like all the rest of us will have to make those decisions for himself based on his circumstances and judgment.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Memphis Baas
#14 - 2016-01-07 13:42:14 UTC
Yeah, you should always keep in mind that the following modules exist and are used for PVP:

- ship scanners - you can target a ship and tell what modules it has fitted
- passive targeters - people can target-lock you without your overview flashing or giving any indication

So yeah, you undock, or you pass by a gate, and everything is nice and peaceful, people waving at you, and meanwhile they're using private comm channels to warn their PVP crew that you're coming.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-01-07 13:53:02 UTC
pro tip, Show Info > Variations > Compare :)

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-01-07 15:57:16 UTC
Just my personal opinion, but if you cannot use the T2 Meta 5 turrets, then I would use the T1 Meta 1 turrets to minimize the costs. Some of the Meta 3s and 4s are super pricey...even more so than the T2s.

When I travel to Low Sec I only fly T1 ships fitted with all T1 equip (I don't PVP; I explore). I really don't want to risk a lot out there...hehe

It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#17 - 2016-01-07 16:21:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
When using all T1, especially meta 1 for pvp, you are granting the enemy a dps advantage. Thus, some counter for this DPS advantage must be considered. Especially since, starting out, you are also flying into encounters where your opponent has a player skill advantage. There are various techniques, but my preferred one is Ewar. A 15k isk module can eliminate your enemies skill point and module meta advantages. Then all you have to do is control the encounter so they cannot bring their superior player skills into play.

Tracking Disruptors, the new Missile Disruptors, and Sensor Damps can be very powerful when used correctly. Jammers are hit and miss and use more cap, so are probably best reserved for when you fly something bigger.

Basically, before you attack use the look function and check out what kind of weapons your potential victim has equipped. If you have the right Ewar fitted then break out the calculator and figure out what kind of range you need to maintain. Can you point them and maintain a safe distance completely out of their range, or can you move inside their range but disrupt their tracking enough to maintain a high enough Angular Velocity to at least enough to maintain your tank? Eventually after crunching the numbers enough times, you'll develop a feel for which ships you can attack and which would be a bad idea.

Frigates will likely have better propulsion than you because of skills and higher meta gear, so anyone on the ball will quickly take action to eliminate your advantages and regain the upper hand. But the longer you can delay this, the more chances you have of winning.\

It has been part of the EvE Meta for a long time to only fit bonused modules. So a ship provides no Ewar bonus, most players scoff at fitting ewar. If a ship provides a bonus to energy turrets, most players scoff at the idea of fitting artillery. That is because most players are a bunch of munchkins. What matters is the tactics not the bonuses.

For example. When I first started eve, I thought speed tanking, and projectile turrets were dumb. Why? Because a speed tankers that use projectiles spend almost the entire encounter in falloff, which is about a 50% dps hit. How could someone operating at 50% dps ever hope beat someone at 100%? Then I joined a corp and we were deep in nullsec and a small gang of minnie ships decided to play with my much bigger gang of about 30. They would swoop in, shoot, go back out, come in, blow up the ship they shot last time, go back out. I don't think we ever hit one of them but they started blowing up ships all around me until we decided to flee.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#18 - 2016-01-07 18:22:20 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
If you have the right Ewar fitted then break out the calculator and figure out ...

Just imagined myself ...sitting in the ship, putting out a calculator, typing... ...dead. Shocked
Memphis Baas
#19 - 2016-01-07 19:02:24 UTC
Pulling out the calculator is the wrong way to do it:

* Bzz bzz bzz Your ship is being target-locked by Pirate, targeting back.
* Warning, Pirate is firing.
* Warning, shields at 30%.
* Activating EWAR module, please calculate and input chances of success for the current range of 12.3754 km.
* Opening comms channel with Pirate...
Pirate: Transfer 200 million ISK to my wallet and I may let you live, if you're fast and say "please". You have 2 seconds!
You: Hey, what's 12.3754 * 0.06 * 0.06 * 0.87 * 1.20? I need to know, quick.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#20 - 2016-01-07 20:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Sorry, I usually fly cloaked, especially while scouting. I should have made that more clear.

But when you're getting a feel for ships, doing this for every ship will give you a feel for various things. Also I can use the in game calculator pretty fast with a 10-key, maybe 5 seconds tops. The more you do this, the faster you get. If I'm unfamiliar with a ship, I'm already breaking out the calculator when I see it on dscan.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

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