These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

[Sensor system overhaul proposal] Into the Dark
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2015-11-11 11:56:46 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:

__D: Level four agents give you access to watch list functions. For a sum of 10 million isk, they will enable you to watch 1 person per transaction, for a period of 7 days.


I've updated the proposal to include this variation of the watch list idea.

When originally drafting my proposal, I struggled to find a good item to place in level 4 agents. However, recent discussions about the watchlist gave me this idea.

The lore: level 4 agents, being rather high up in the command chain of their respective companies, have contacts within Concord. Contacts willing to keep tabs on other players for you...for a price. Concord officers take the bribe and spread it to their friends, friends that use the stargate network to monitor your status.

Here's the catch:

All things in the game need counterplay. The counterplay for this watchlist is this: It no longer functions as a simple "online/offline" status. It functions as an "in k-space" status. Due to working through the Concord-monitored stargate network, it does not work in wormholes. And it does not work while a pilot is docked.

So is your target offline, or simply docked up? Hmm. Now the intel is incomplete, and it has to be. Streaming intel cannot be infallible, heck, streaming intel should not be possible at all. But I think this is an acceptable compromise.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#42 - 2015-11-11 16:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Xe'Cara'eos
part -
comment

1 (local) -
I prefer your idea about delaying local - but I'd say keep the nullsec times going up to 20 mins at -1.0

2 (watchlist) -
agree this needs to change, certainly it should be useable AoL/MSN/steam style - and perhaps one or two 'baddies' - I like your idea though

3
something like this - yes

4 (dscan) -
dscan leave it alone - I'm pretty sure it's balanced as is, especially in WH's

5&6 (cloaking and probing)
the only change I'd make right now is to enable you to probe down a cloaked ship (as ship type - cloaked) to about 90% max,
otherwise cloaking is fine.

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#43 - 2015-11-11 16:53:47 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:


Local.

Dis-information: Make it possible for someone to spoof another players name being listed here.



How could a pilot spoof local? A mod? An implant? No - the frozen corpse of the pilot who's name you want to use. Let the corpse market speculation begin!!!!!

Nikk Narrel wrote:


Cloaking.
This is set in the game as a pausing mechanic, more able to give a pilot the means to step away than actually play in a different sense.
The dividing line between this pause, and actual playable cloaks, is the covops line. Between no speed penalty, and ability to warp cloaked, these are more functional. The ships they are on are very specific, to keep balance.

If we are going to make cloaks vulnerable to combat interests, then the trade off is to let them fight back while cloaked.
The ability to track and hunt should be comparable to their ability to inflict damage while hidden.
If we are going to play a submarine sim, then let's not make it one sided.



I like this idea a lot, let the cloakies target and shoot while cloaked. But, this would have to decloak them for a time in order to allow their prey to target back for this to be balanced. I think if this is the case, remove the restriction that once you're targeted you can't recloak. I always thought that was silly.

To the OP -

I like much of what you present. I especially like the ping mechanic for D-Scan, this is one I have mentioned many times before. Changing D-Scan range according to ship class is a good idea, too. However, since the Battleships (and bigger) would have the most range, there is an element of pay to win (or be immune) here.

Having engine and EM signatures makes sense. The guy cloaking to scan down a system still enjoys relative immunity. So do the nefarious cloaky campers. However, one should be able to purchase and use modules and/or rigs to reduce these signatures and certain ships should get signature reduction bonuses - i.e. Stealth Bombers have a significantly reduced engine signature, Exploration CovOps get reduced EM and Recons can have a little of both.

I think the Combat Recons should retain their D-Scan immunity since it makes for good game play. Barring that, make them only appear on D-Scan is they're at a closer range (4 AU? 1?). If they are past that range, they're still ghosts.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2016-01-05 11:56:15 UTC
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:
To the OP -

I like much of what you present. I especially like the ping mechanic for D-Scan, this is one I have mentioned many times before. Changing D-Scan range according to ship class is a good idea, too. However, since the Battleships (and bigger) would have the most range, there is an element of pay to win (or be immune) here.

Having engine and EM signatures makes sense. The guy cloaking to scan down a system still enjoys relative immunity. So do the nefarious cloaky campers. However, one should be able to purchase and use modules and/or rigs to reduce these signatures and certain ships should get signature reduction bonuses - i.e. Stealth Bombers have a significantly reduced engine signature, Exploration CovOps get reduced EM and Recons can have a little of both.

I think the Combat Recons should retain their D-Scan immunity since it makes for good game play. Barring that, make them only appear on D-Scan is they're at a closer range (4 AU? 1?). If they are past that range, they're still ghosts.


I would disagree on the assertion that it's pay to win. It's a bigger ship with bigger and more advanced electronics, hence why the sensor strength is generally higher on bigger ships. It's not quite the same as "range" either, think of it more as "optimal". Because real d-scan range wouldn't change per se, only how far out you can discern and identify objects. I know I may be biased, but giving sensor strength another role in the game feels right considering they already gave it a role in probe detection. And more good reasons to equip ECCM is a good thing, right? It certainly wouldn't be mandatory, d-scan is going to be functional with or without it, ECCM would just enhance the function, much akin to tracking enhancers helping turrets but technically not necessary.

And having a variety of methods to detect objects, with varying degrees of accuracy, gives an edge to veterans who can use the piecemeal information to have fairly accurate guesses as to what's out there before they get into range enough for d-scan to fully identify them. I think I drew inspiration of such a system from "Sub Command", a quasi-realistic modern submarine game where you can get close to a ship to identify it by sound alone, but if you use all the tools at your disposal you can form an educated guess as to the ship's identity much farther out. You won't always be right, but with enough knowledge and skill you'll be right much more often than not.

With Recons and d-scan immunity, I feel it's a bad and gimmicky mechanic as bad as EWAR immunity on capitals. Absolutes do not make for fun gameplay. Nuance does. And thankfully, this is a game and community that traditionally embraces complex and nuanced systems. That said, there's discussion now about capitals being switched over to EWAR resistance, perhaps we could give Recons d-scan resistance, which would pretty much accomplish what you have asked for - you have to be closer to identify them. I feel that still fits well with my role for them as hunter-killers.

A short aside on cloaky campers - it's often said that if they're afk they can't hurt you. This system gives you that way of determining if they're AFK or not. Detect their sensor pings, or possibly their engine signature if they're closing in on you. If they're sitting still off in the distance you'd still never detect them. Viola! Balance achieved.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Lord Molly
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#45 - 2016-01-22 17:56:08 UTC
Sir, i fully support this

My Youtube Chan

Alliance Youtube Chan
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#46 - 2016-01-22 18:49:34 UTC
Your color coded number scheme is worthless.

I'll be the pilot to prove the point.

When I enter many low or null secs - everyone docks, cloaks, logs, scatters or leaves. They aren't saying "OMG it's freakin' Serendipity Lost.... run or we're all gonna die"

They see +1 that isn't blue and take off. I'm not some famous pvp pilot of doom. I'm just a girl in the world. Taking the name out of local and replacing it w/ a number scheme - a standings list color coded number scheme is completely and utterly worthless. My total worth when entering an unfriendly system is exactly +1 non blue. No more. No less.

You either appear in local or you don't. The initial flight is based on +1 NOT on Serendiptiy


So, you're 0-1 out of the gate w/ your ideas.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#47 - 2016-01-22 18:54:22 UTC
Part 2 - watch lists.

They are used to track hunt and pop other players or they are used to notify you that old eve buddies are back in the game. Both are great reasons to keep the watch list.


The remove watch list crowd is primarily super pilots (or their respective corp/alliances) that don't want to be tracked and noted as they enter the game. Well big whoopty do. They are big boys that chose to be ultra elite special super pilots - that's the price of being famous - people follow you. Suck it up.


Part 2 - remove watch lists - also a bad idea for the game. You sir are 0-2.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#48 - 2016-01-22 18:58:09 UTC
Synopsis of the rest of you stuff. You sir a just another common null bear looking to play safe. I threw up several times reading your ideas.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-03-07 22:50:17 UTC
Delving into the fundamentals with this idea.

The main issue I see here is that a player would have no idea if a threat enters the system, so essentially you are turning all of space, including empire space, into W-space.

That is not a problem for a pvp player that is scanning all the time, but it would a huge new burden for traders, haulers, miners, manufacturers, mission runners, high-sec explorers or anybody else who is not doing PVP.

People like miners and explorers are not in ships that can contest a PVP hunter. They have to sit in one place for long periods of time, especially miners. So, blinding somebody who is a helpless stationary target is not going to be good for gameplay.

Null sec and low sec are pretty empty as it is, doing what you suggest would make them even more empty.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#50 - 2016-03-08 01:35:20 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Your color coded number scheme is worthless.

I'll be the pilot to prove the point.

When I enter many low or null secs - everyone docks, cloaks, logs, scatters or leaves. They aren't saying "OMG it's freakin' Serendipity Lost.... run or we're all gonna die"

They see +1 that isn't blue and take off. I'm not some famous pvp pilot of doom. I'm just a girl in the world. Taking the name out of local and replacing it w/ a number scheme - a standings list color coded number scheme is completely and utterly worthless. My total worth when entering an unfriendly system is exactly +1 non blue. No more. No less.

You either appear in local or you don't. The initial flight is based on +1 NOT on Serendiptiy


So, you're 0-1 out of the gate w/ your ideas.

Remove local totally, (Except in WH's where it operates like present)
Replace it with a Constellation chat instead. Which already exists but make that the base level, then make it delayed user list also. So fast ships can get through a Constellation without appearing on the list. Now we have intel on anyone who sticks around, but not exact system, and not instant.
Previous page123