These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Real Physics, ignored for no reason
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-01-09 03:16:55 UTC
A little pet peeve of mine: bad physics in the game.
Now I know a lot must be ignored for gameplay reasons.
However, there is no excuse for making Gamma ray lasers short range lasers, while radiowave lasers are long range.

Due to focusing limits as a result of diffraction, which is related to wavelength: the highest frequency laser should have the longest range.

All I'm asking is that the names/stats be switched.
Gamma gets the stats of the old radio and vice versa.
X ray gets the stats of the old microwave and vice versa
UV gets the stats of the old IR and vie versa.
Valei Khurelem
#2 - 2012-01-09 03:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
It's not just lasers, the asteroid collision programming is awful to, the only thing that seems to be working properly are when ships bump into each other and people just use that for griefing miners.

People have also pointed out the problems with warp completely going through planets and stations as well.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#3 - 2012-01-09 04:48:45 UTC
Eve and physics do not belong in the same sentence typically. It's best to just not think about it really.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#4 - 2012-01-09 05:52:27 UTC
the op doesn't know light very well, do they?

The higher energy a given beam of light is (such as X ray or Gamma ray), the more 'squished' the wave is, and because of the shortened wave is why higher-energy light has a shorter range. The opposite is true of radio and microwaves; since they are low energy, their waves are much longer, so they carry farther.

'Tis one reason why earth is in the 'life zone', as we are far enough away to not be bombarded by gamma rays while close enough for significant heat.

Also explains why you can be several miles away from a nuclear blast and still feel the heat but not get a gamma ray bath.

Where the science gets done
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-01-09 12:44:41 UTC
"Eve and physics do not belong in the same sentence typically. It's best to just not think about it really."

I know, it of course has major physics flaws, you know, that whole FTL thing?
In warp they (used to) have a blue and red shift, which was cool and a reference to the laws of physics when you move very fast, except that 3 AU/sec is much faster than light, and well... at that point red shift and blue shift wouldn't really apply.

Quote:
the op doesn't know light very well, do they?

The higher energy a given beam of light is (such as X ray or Gamma ray), the more 'squished' the wave is and because of the shortened wave is why higher-energy light has a shorter range. The opposite is true of radio and microwaves; since they are low energy, their waves are much longer, so they carry farther.

'Tis one reason why earth is in the 'life zone', as we are far enough away to not be bombarded by gamma rays while close enough for significant heat.

Also explains why you can be several miles away from a nuclear blast and still feel the heat but not get a gamma ray bath.

Could your post be more Fail? About the only thing you got right was that high energy photons correspond to short wavelengths.

Light does not dissipate, it keeps going and going through the vacuum of space. The problem is keeping it focused to a small point so its energy is still concentrated and destructive. This is where wavelength comes in. Due to the diffraction of light, there are fundamental limits to how well focused the beam can be.

Suffice to say, higher frequency light suffers less from diffraction, and can remain focused at much greater ranges.

If you would care to actually try to understand my point, read this:
http://panoptesv.com/SciFi/LaserDeathRay/Diffraction.html

If you'll just take a 3rd parties word for it and not try to understand the concepts behind it, and just want to play with something that does the math for you, visit here:
http://www.5596.org/cgi-bin/laser.php

And try different values for the wavelength

I suggest the following parameters to start with (don't use commas in the calculator):
Laser Output power = 500,000 MW
Lens diameter = 10 meters
Beam duration = 0.0001 second
Duty cycle: 1.0

This gives you a 50 Megajoule laser pulse at half a tera-watt output power, we already have lasers that fire in excess of 1 tera-watt for very short durations

At the default wavelength of 2.9 e-7 it only produces an "impulse shock" at the closest default range.
Substitute e-9 (X rays), and see how far out it produces an impulse shock.
Now substitute e-11 (gamma rays), and see how far out it goes....

Then you should understand my objection
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-09 13:08:49 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Could your post be more Fail?

Or as most of us would say, "could your post be more wrong/incorrect/factually deficient?".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#7 - 2012-01-09 14:25:10 UTC
CCP took the formulas for ship movement from stone tables found near the volcano in Iceland. Later they noticed that they where describing ancient submarines. Now they can't change that since nobody really understood those tables back than and they still haven't trained archaeology to V.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Khurt DeLandcourt
Infinity Bay.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2012-01-09 15:21:29 UTC
it's quite funny you are complaining about the physic of a technology that actually does not exist and not about simple things such as sounds in void space. Lol
Del Jouhannen
Delphinian Enterprises
#9 - 2012-01-09 15:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Del Jouhannen
The most glaring physics issue imho is that when you turn off an afterburner you actually start *slowing down* What?

That and having maximum speed limits on any vessel is just silly. Acceleration (drive power) can vary between ships for sure, and mass would have an effect on how much you can accelerate that mass in a given direction (inertia). A MWD or afterburner would become a large 'boost' that sends you in a certain direction .. just good luck stopping or changing direction Big smile

Thinking of capital ships racing off out of control because someone leaned on the MWD button too long.. heheh.

For EVE, it works okay like this even if it's not proper physics. It's like the difference between an arcade flight sim and a real flight simulator. The latter might be more accurate but the former might be more fun.
sHERU
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-09 15:30:47 UTC
Ehmm...

EVE Online is a world where earthlings screwed up the 4th dimension, now everything is paused and our ships wobble around in a fluid that we call "vacuum"

All joking aside, physics in EVE are seriously screwed up to the point that if CCP is going to fix it, it would make EVE a complete new game.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#11 - 2012-01-09 18:40:50 UTC
If you fancy playing a space game with "real" Newtonian physics try I war 2. The battles in that were mental when you turned the flight assist off.

Having this type of motion in Eve would be the biggest change since.... goggles. But seriously it would make the whole thing so different, would be nice if they made a test server with it to let us have a go though :)