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Help me to understand tech 2 manufacturing and invention

Author
Aryu Sirius
Strategic Solutions INC
#1 - 2012-01-09 11:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aryu Sirius
So after reading through the forums and guides scouring for information I think I have a general idea of how to invent. Gather a named item to invent + BPC of tech1 item + two of the appropriate datacore types + one data interface type + the required skill + available invention slot and appropriate decryptor.

So you go through the invention process a few times and you end up with your tech 2 BPC.

Question My null sec region only has 2 research stations, how much would a research POS cost to maintain per month Question

So after I recieve this BPC and attempt to manufacture this item where do I get all this other materials? For example lets say I'm trying to make an Arazu. For that I need:

Arrow Crystalline Carbonide Armor plate 3.375
Arrow Fusion Reactor Unit 27
Arrow Ion Thruster 51
Arrow Magnetometric Sensor Cluster 446
Arrow Oscillator Cap Unit 338
Arrow Photon Microprocessor 1620
Arrow Pulse Shield Emittor 270
Arrow Construction Blocks 68

ShockedShockedShockedEvil Where do people get all that from? I know some of it can be produced from PI like the contruction blocks but the rest comes from what? Do people just buy the rest from the market? That seems like a razor thin profit margin if thats case.

It just seems overwhelming everytime I look at tech 2 construction but if I can get a few pointers maybe I can setup for success. Blink
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#2 - 2012-01-09 12:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
Aryu Sirius wrote:
So after reading through the forums and guides scouring for information I think I have a general idea of how to invent. Gather a named item to invent + BPC of tech1 item + two of the appropriate datacore types + one data interface type + the required skill + available invention slot and appropriate decryptor.

So you go through the invention process a few times and you end up with your tech 2 BPC.

Question My null sec region only has 2 research stations, how much would a research station cost to maintain per month Question

So after I recieve this BPC and attempt to manufacture this item where do I get all this other materials? For example lets say I'm trying to make an Arazu. For that I need:

Arrow Crystalline Carbonide Armor plate 3.375
Arrow Fusion Reactor Unit 27
Arrow Ion Thruster 51
Arrow Magnetometric Sensor Cluster 446
Arrow Oscillator Cap Unit 338
Arrow Photon Microprocessor 1620
Arrow Pulse Shield Emittor 270
Arrow Construction Blocks 68

ShockedShockedShockedEvil Where do people get all that from? I know some of it can be produced from PI like the contruction blocks but the rest comes from what? Do people just buy the rest from the market? That seems like a razor thin profit margin if thats case.

It just seems overwhelming everytime I look at tech 2 construction but if I can get a few pointers maybe I can setup for success. Blink



if your asking these questions ill take a guess and say your new to invention/manufaturing t2.

start with mods and work to ships imo, mostly less time/isk investment to get started.

get a decent invent/build program, i use eve meep. this allows you to see what you need to buy for each of the items you need to build. as well as giving you costings and break downs.

moon mins are used to make the t2 parts you ask about. see eve meep for details of what you need for each part of your t2 build.

i use indy alts in empire to amke life easy with manufaturing, doing t2 production in 0.0 is a pita at best. too much importing of crap for my liking as yourll never find it all in one place. unlike the mighty jita.

OMG when can i get a pic here

Miiikka
Stanza Inc.
#3 - 2012-01-09 13:22:41 UTC
Aryu Sirius wrote:
So after reading through the forums and guides scouring for information I think I have a general idea of how to invent. Gather a named item to invent + BPC of tech1 item + two of the appropriate datacore types + one data interface type + the required skill + available invention slot and appropriate decryptor.

So you go through the invention process a few times and you end up with your tech 2 BPC.

Question My null sec region only has 2 research stations, how much would a research station cost to maintain per month Question

So after I recieve this BPC and attempt to manufacture this item where do I get all this other materials? For example lets say I'm trying to make an Arazu. For that I need:

Arrow Crystalline Carbonide Armor plate 3.375
Arrow Fusion Reactor Unit 27
Arrow Ion Thruster 51
Arrow Magnetometric Sensor Cluster 446
Arrow Oscillator Cap Unit 338
Arrow Photon Microprocessor 1620
Arrow Pulse Shield Emittor 270
Arrow Construction Blocks 68

ShockedShockedShockedEvil Where do people get all that from? I know some of it can be produced from PI like the contruction blocks but the rest comes from what? Do people just buy the rest from the market? That seems like a razor thin profit margin if thats case.

It just seems overwhelming everytime I look at tech 2 construction but if I can get a few pointers maybe I can setup for success. Blink



Firstly, I do all my research & production in hisec. Its much easier to get the bits you need.

Unless you are producing ships, don't bother with decryptors. They are not cost-effective for mods etc.

Secondly, to make a decent go at it, you will also need the BPO's of all the other components mentioned. Research those a fair bit to reduce the input requirements. Then buy the moon mins, etc that you need to make them. Do your own PI for those components.

The problem you will have is that all the public research labs usually have long waiting lists, so ideally you will need a hisec POS.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-09 13:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Basic Tech 2 production process;

(using "Sensor Booster II" as example)

1. Obtain BPO of the base Tech 1 item. In this case Sensor Booster I. You need this because the invention process needs BPCs. Lots of BPCS

2. Make a bunch of max-run BPC copies of the BPO (In the case of Sensor Booster I, that would be 20 BPCs, each for 300 runs if I'm not mistaken). The important bit is "max run copies" for modules. For ships use just single run copies.

3. Look up what datacores are required for the invention. (For Sensor Booster II, that is 2x Datacore - Electromagnetic Physics and 2x Datacore - Electronic Engineering). These can be either obtained from R&D agents (requires standings and time for the RPs to accumulate) or from market. Try Jita. You need these per BPC you are inventing. For a batch of 20 BPCs, multiple by 20, so 40 of each datacore

4. Set up Invention runs (uses laboratories like copying) - you need the datacores and the BPCs and "Esoteric Data Interface" (an item that isn't consumed, easiest just to buy off market, not expensive). This item depends on the blueprint - there are four different (four different EVE races) plus separate versions of the item for ship invention and rig invention.

5. Out comes 10 run Sensor Booster II BPCs (ME -4, PE -4). Out of 20 BPC Invention attempts you usually get something between 5 and 15 successes. Depends on your skills and luck. With level 4 skills in the relevant science skills (in this case, Caldari Encryption Methods, Electromagnetic Physics and Electronic Engineering), the odds are around 45% per attempt so, on average 8-9 success out of 20 tries.

ALL OF THE ABOVE requires, in practice, access to POS laboratories. There just isn't free laboratory capacity anywhere in the empire. So to do that, you need a research POS with labs. Small POS is fine (can fit 3 labs).

Then to the manufacturing of the BPC...

Sensor Booster II requires (per unit, multiply by 10 for amounts per your BPC)

89x Tritanium
15x Pyerite
2x Isogen
2x Nocxium
---these are normal minerals. Mine or buy from market

1x Sensor Booster I
---T1 item required for building. Build some with the BPO you have or buy from market

3x Transmitter
---Manufactured via PI or buy from market

7x Miniature Electronics
---Manufactured via PI or buy from market

1x R.A.M. Electronics
---T1 item built with BPO or bought from market (requires normal minerals to build).

4xGravimetric Sensor Cluster
---T1 item (A tech 2 item component) - built with BPO which in turn uses...
20xTitanium Carbide
1xNanotransistors
2xHypersynatic Fibers
...which are complex reaction products produced in POSes from moon minerals. Most likely buy from market.

3xQuantum Microprocessor
---T1 item (A tech 2 item component) - built with BPO which in turn uses...
12xTitanium Carbide
1xPhenolic Composites
5xNanotransistors
...which are complex reaction products produced in POSes from moon minerals. Most likely buy from market.

So as you can see, even a simple T2 module requires a small libary of BPOs used to build parts for it which in turn require materials that range from normal minerals to PI goods and complex reaction products. In theory you can buy all the required parts off Jita market (just look at the blueprint requirement list) but you will be offloading considerable amount of your profit to other builders who made those components.

Ships are slightly more complex as they tend to require a larger number of different tech 2 item components - all which require their own blueprint to build and so on... they also take a lot longer as the BPC copy process is a lot slower for ships. Ships also tend to be worth it to invent with decryptors - these are special items found as loot (and sold on the market) that modify the invention change. They add to the invention cost but can modify the chance of success, number of runs the BPC has and the ME/PE values. For modules, ignore the whole decryptors, not cost effective.

More here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Invention

And yes, for the Invention and manufacturing steps, you need many science skills that are not needed with T1 production. The whole process also consumes blueprint copies at such a rate that Tech 2 production is not really viable using purely station laboratories (they are always taken). Building itself can be done at a station.

I've also found this site to be excellent for "breaking down" each T2 item invention/build process:

http://www.eve-market-guide.com/invention.php

However, note that the price data used by the site doesn't seem to update so any cost and profit information should be disregarded and you should do the math yourself to see if the whole process is profitable. (In general, with level 4 skills it is for any high volume module but this is not true for all Tech 2 items)
Zifrian
Aideron Robotics
#5 - 2012-01-09 14:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
You have the basic process down. On the building of items, the parts you asked about are t2 components and pi items. You can get the bps for these items from the different races (arazu components are gallente, curse would be amarr, etc.) On profitability, most ships are pretty slim but they go up and down (I have had 30 runs of arazu sitting in my hanger for months) and an industry program would help you out to find the best combinations. Check out my sig for mine. I would start with modules first and go from there.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

Aryu Sirius
Strategic Solutions INC
#6 - 2012-01-09 14:21:52 UTC
Jarnis,

Just wanted to say awesome reply, very informative.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-09 14:28:11 UTC
Miiikka wrote:

Secondly, to make a decent go at it, you will also need the BPO's of all the other components mentioned. Research those a fair bit to reduce the input requirements. Then buy the moon mins, etc that you need to make them. Do your own PI for those components.


It's actually often more cost effective to buy many completed components outright rather than build them yourself, from a profit/hour perspective. Building everything from scratch might raise your profit / unit, but it ties up manufacturing slots that could be used for more profitable finished products. It's up to you to determine if you've got the capital to keep all your available assembly lines building finished products, or if you need to do some of the earlier stages of construction yourself.

eve-market-guide.com is an excellent tool for researching the margins on invention and manufacturing. It automatically takes into account the threshold at which intermediate parts become worth while to buy on market vs. producing yourself, which decryptors will result in net profit, which products are even worth inventing at all.

XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2012-01-09 14:54:56 UTC
Don't forget, when your invention profits seem low/non existent, make sure to make a thread in here requesting CCP remove T2 blueprints.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-01-09 15:04:20 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Don't forget, when your invention profits seem low/non existent, make sure to make a thread in here requesting CCP remove T2 blueprints.


Lol

(no, don't do it. It is a dead horse... Your profits are not low because of T2 BPOs)
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-01-09 15:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Also note that if you are serious about T2 manufacturing, there can be found pre-researched racial tech 2 component BPO packs on contracts at a reasonable cost - saves weeks of BPO research (in exchange for some ISK over ME0 raw BPOs, obviously). Yes, in EVE anything can be had for a little bit of ISK and someone is doing business with everything... including things like researched Tech 2 component BPOs.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#11 - 2012-01-10 03:51:02 UTC
Salo Aldeland wrote:

It's actually often more cost effective to buy many completed components outright rather than build them yourself, from a profit/hour perspective. Building everything from scratch might raise your profit / unit, but it ties up manufacturing slots that could be used for more profitable finished products. It's up to you to determine if you've got the capital to keep all your available assembly lines building finished products, or if you need to do some of the earlier stages of construction yourself.


That depends on which T2 construction component you're speaking of. Most of them have 10-20% margins if you make them yourself (which is about 10-50M profit/week depending on which item). Build times for the components are either 1 or 2 or 4 minutes per unit, so it doesn't take long to run off 1000 units of a particular component.

The base T1 items, OTOH, are definitely a mixed bag as to whether you should build or buy. The lazy man's method is to just keep a pile of minerals around and run off a few 100-run (or max-run) BPCs that you use to spit out T1 items when you run low. Buy orders are your friend there too.

An inventory tracking tool is also of big importance when it comes to T2 production chains. I use jEVEAssets and have stockpile reports setup to tell me when I'm running low on a particular item, whether I have enough T1 BPCs on hand, whether my towers are low on fuel, etc. So about once a week, I can quickly browse through the stockpile reports and see that I need 5M units of this, 250k of that, 300 of the other thing in order to keep my production lines humming. Or I can see that a particular POS lab is running low on datacores. Or that I need to move fuel out to the tower again.