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EVE Online = Dungeons and Dragons 2.0
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Jenshae Chiroptera
#41 - 2012-01-09 14:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
DrunkenNinja wrote:
You guys are missing the point. Games like Starcraft are the antithesis of games like EVE and WoW (I used D&D as a hilarious example).
This is why EVE isn't that fun imo.


If you are looking for a real antithesis then try Go I find the programming and attempts to make an AI to beat human world champions interesting.

Edit: Although it is tenuous, OP has some merit to what they are saying, many games are based off others or subsequent ones from them.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#42 - 2012-01-09 14:15:54 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Hainnz wrote:
EVE is a harsh mistress? Compared to the way my friends and I played AD&D back when we were sadistic little pre-teen pukes in the late 70s and early 80s, EVE is a coddling, affectionate wet-nurse. :)


Tomb of Horrors.



Grimtooth's Traps.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#43 - 2012-01-09 14:32:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
activate group of 1400mm guns
*rolls D6
1
missed
*rolls D6
6
hit
rolls D12
12
perfect strike
*rolls D6
4
hits
*rolls D12
2
hardly scratch it
That's now how it works, silly. It's much simpler than that. P


Indeed D&D future has a starship combat and you roll:
Quote:
1d20 + gunner’s ranged attack bonus + range penalty + starship’s size modifier + targeting system’s equipment bonus

A beam weapon has a maximum range of 10 increments. A projectile weapon has an unlimited range, since projectiles don’t lose inertia in space. Starship’s Size Modifier: Starships are Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal in size. Table: Starship Sizes notes the size modifiers for ships of different sizes. Targeting System’s Equipment Bonus: Most starships have computerized targeting systems to help gunners train weapons on targets. A standard targeting system provides an equipment bonus on the gunner’s attack roll depending on the ship’s size: Huge +1, Gargantuan +2, Colossal +3. Improved targeting systems (see Starship Sensors) grant higher bonuses. Table: Starship Sizes summarizes the targeting system equipment bonuses for ships of different sizes.

More bout D&D modern rules at http://www.d20resources.com/future.d20.srd/starships/combat/combat.statistics/attack.roll.php Cool
Mal Mandrake
Space Goat Likes it Rough
#44 - 2012-01-09 14:46:35 UTC
DrunkenNinja wrote:
Think about it.
  • RNG: Check
  • Emphasis on RP: Check
  • Gear/stats > player skill: Check
  • Content is player generated: Check

    • I know this may come as a shock, but it's a conspiracy.
    CCP are actually the biggest dungeon masters ever. Many people who play EVE came straight from D&D.
    EVE is not an action game—it is not a strategy game... it is primarily a role playing game.


    Emphasis on RP = Don't know about you, but most of my 2.0 game was at best RP-lite.. generally it is just about players vs GM killing **** and getting treasure!

    Gear/stats > player skill = Only if your GM sucks, creativity was by far the most prevalent skill

    Content is player generated = Guess you never played in any of the campaign settings? Forgotten Realms is still bigger than all content created for Skyrim, Oblivion, and WoW combined. Besides CCP can only build the playground, it is up to you to figure out how to play in it.

    The concept or deciding the outcome of events through some form of randomization has been around much longer than games you play.

    Also 2.0 is still revered by many (but not all) as the best incarnation of D&D, so to compare something good with something good is really a complement.
    RubyPorto
    RubysRhymes
    #45 - 2012-01-09 15:35:33 UTC
    Elessa Enaka wrote:

    Also, 3.5 is IMHO the best version of D&D released to date, the people who came up with 4th, should however be executed and everything pertaining to 4th should be burned


    4th is the most balanced edition to date, and turned that achievement into an object lesson that with balance comes boredom. The fact that it fixed the quadratic wizards, linear fighters problem pretty much means that no other D&D edition can touch it for balance.

    3E and 3.5 are the editions I started on, and I like spending time on the mechanics of a character concept, so the customization it offers is perfect for me. Though balance is pretty laughable. (Clerics and Druids are by far and away the best melee fighters, etc)

    Pathfinder, the ~3.75 that Paizo is currently putting out is where I'm at for a game that says "Look, casters are going to be more powerful than fighters at high level, nothing we can do about that, but we can make sure that fighting classes have interesting abilities and no dead levels, so they can be fun to play without worrying about 'balance'"

    "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
    Herzog Wolfhammer
    Sigma Special Tactics Group
    #46 - 2012-01-09 15:53:44 UTC
    I think it's more along the lines of the Ravenloft set.

    Fear checks
    Horror checks


    Bring back DEEEEP Space!
    Misina Arlath
    Darkfall Helix
    #47 - 2012-01-09 15:55:20 UTC
    I once warped into a Dread Gazebo.

    Nomatter how hard I tried I could only hit with a natural 20 since he had at least AC50 and damage reduction.

    In the end he just shrugged off my projectile rounds and proceeded to devour my ship.

    :( :(
    War Kitten
    Panda McLegion
    #48 - 2012-01-09 17:23:46 UTC
    PC: I cast web with my +3 Rapier on that Merlin with the magic-missiles.

    GM: The Merlin summons a Drake army from the gates of Hek and it destroys your Rapier.

    Yep, just like D&D.

    I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
    Kulmid
    ANZAC ALLIANCE
    Goonswarm Federation
    #49 - 2012-01-09 17:29:12 UTC
    Try going 10 jumps out of the noob starting system and out of highsec Lol
    Mars Theran
    Foreign Interloper
    #50 - 2012-01-09 18:30:02 UTC
    RubyPorto wrote:
    Elessa Enaka wrote:

    Also, 3.5 is IMHO the best version of D&D released to date, the people who came up with 4th, should however be executed and everything pertaining to 4th should be burned


    4th is the most balanced edition to date, and turned that achievement into an object lesson that with balance comes boredom. The fact that it fixed the quadratic wizards, linear fighters problem pretty much means that no other D&D edition can touch it for balance.

    3E and 3.5 are the editions I started on, and I like spending time on the mechanics of a character concept, so the customization it offers is perfect for me. Though balance is pretty laughable. (Clerics and Druids are by far and away the best melee fighters, etc)

    Pathfinder, the ~3.75 that Paizo is currently putting out is where I'm at for a game that says "Look, casters are going to be more powerful than fighters at high level, nothing we can do about that, but we can make sure that fighting classes have interesting abilities and no dead levels, so they can be fun to play without worrying about 'balance'"


    You realize this means I probably have 10-15 years on you. :ouch:

    I actually spent good money on 3rd edition when it came out, and found it so diluted as to be nearly unplayable. The game had devolved into silly mechanics of power systems(Feats), crap skills with no depth, even crappier items with stacking bonuses, and character stucture that resembled stacked magic or pokemon card decks.

    All the RP elements of the game were wiped with the introduction of 3rd, the worlds became plastic models with no real content, and the planes devolved to a basic notion that there was something out there.

    Dieties, magic, clerical abilities all got reworked, while items, spells, and abilities disappeared; and playing became subject to rediculous challende rating mechanics and rewards that made advancement initially accelerated, but eventually limited to an unbelievably slow grind, where even defeating opponents that were Ad Nauseum, was worth absolutely nothing.

    I suppose if you started there, it might not seem so bad; but the wealth of content that went with 2nd edition and Skills and Powers rulesets, as well as infinitely developed worlds and crafting systems... unbelievable.

    The saddest part, is crafting a magical item now requires an appropriate feat and a few basic materials; where the knowledge of how to do so, has been completely lost. You don't even need spells, because the mechanics of the spell and magic system don't allow for it.

    Same goes for the rest of the crafting system.

    D&D died with 3rd edition.

    If I have any regrets, it's that I didn't quit sooner. It really is a waste of time better spent elsewhere either way; the only good thing that came with 3rd editon, is my realization of that. The fact that most players are pot-smoking, narcisistic idiots wasn't enough by itself; as I always figured I could find a good group. I never did.

    Now it holds no appeal for me; or very little.
    zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #51 - 2012-01-09 18:38:31 UTC
    Malcanis wrote:
    RubyPorto wrote:
    Hainnz wrote:
    EVE is a harsh mistress? Compared to the way my friends and I played AD&D back when we were sadistic little pre-teen pukes in the late 70s and early 80s, EVE is a coddling, affectionate wet-nurse. :)

    Tomb of Horrors.

    Grimtooth's Traps.

    …the final proof that if the GM wants you dead, there is no saving throw, all without even resorting to all the D&D “every part of the room is trying to eat you” (category #2) line-up of monsters.
    Maxpie
    MUSE LLP
    #52 - 2012-01-09 18:49:18 UTC
    And here I was thinking Eve was a ripoff of Boot Hill

    No good deed goes unpunished
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #53 - 2012-01-09 19:02:02 UTC
    Nah, if anything, EVE is Chill — a game with an odd truncated-level skill system, an unhealthy fondness for tables, a basic premise that you're screwed, and being decidedly different from its “big brother” (CoC).
    Baneken
    Arctic Light Inc.
    Arctic Light
    #54 - 2012-01-09 19:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
    RubyPorto wrote:

    4th is the most balanced edition to date, and turned that achievement into an object lesson that with balance comes boredom. The fact that it fixed the quadratic wizards, linear fighters problem pretty much means that no other D&D edition can touch it for balance.


    4th editon has a balance, sort of, in which each new character option book made core character classes obsolete and it's awesomely boring because it offers no other character advancement but a more powerful attack with monsters that are equally as powerful as your new attacks meaning it doesn't matter what tier you play or progress through it's still the same hack and slash on a grid board.
    Never mind also the fact of minions that as a mechanic just doesn't work unless their meant for grinding lvl's just like in wow ...
    and that wizards has absolutely no use as a class unless GM throws in a huge array of minions to grind some fast xp, oh wait Roll
    I could go on and on about what went wrong with 4th edition but I'll just mention that they also threw modularity of 3.x edition out of the window with the 4th.
    Knug LiDi
    The Dark Space Initiative
    Scary Wormhole People
    #55 - 2012-01-09 20:17:32 UTC
    Quote:
    Don't know if any of you have any familiarity, but every layer and domain of the Abyss is different;


    I've been to London.

    If only we could fall into a woman's arms

    without falling into her hands
    Knug LiDi
    The Dark Space Initiative
    Scary Wormhole People
    #56 - 2012-01-09 20:20:29 UTC


    D&D died with 3rd edition.

    If I have any regrets, it's that I didn't quit sooner. It really is a waste of time better spent elsewhere either way; the only good thing that came with 3rd editon, is my realization of that. The fact that most players are pot-smoking, narcisistic idiots wasn't enough by itself; as I always figured I could find a good group. I never did.

    Now it holds no appeal for me; or very little.
    ---

    D&D peaked with AD&D. That GM's guide was the highpoint. Everything else was downhill.

    My first experience was "keep on the borderlands" or some such.

    When role play meant something

    If only we could fall into a woman's arms

    without falling into her hands
    RubyPorto
    RubysRhymes
    #57 - 2012-01-09 21:17:17 UTC
    Mars Theran wrote:

    You realize this means I probably have 10-15 years on you. :ouch:

    Good for you, I guess. With age comes Senility, as the old saying goes (maybe I'm getting that one wrong,Oops, I forget)
    Quote:

    I actually spent good money on 3rd edition when it came out, and found it so diluted as to be nearly unplayable. The game had devolved into silly mechanics of power systems(Feats), crap skills with no depth, even crappier items with stacking bonuses, and character stucture that resembled stacked magic or pokemon card decks.

    All the RP elements of the game were wiped with the introduction of 3rd, the worlds became plastic models with no real content, and the planes devolved to a basic notion that there was something out there.


    If you were getting your RP material from the books and not a good GM and group of players, I don't know what to say.

    I played 2E a bit, and while I *Adore* the fluff (and used it to inform my games more than I used 3E fluff), the mechanics of 2E detracted from my gameplay experience. Mostly because a lot of the mechanical detail doesn't add much to to the fun to compensate for the extra work.

    Quote:

    The saddest part, is crafting a magical item now requires an appropriate feat and a few basic materials; where the knowledge of how to do so, has been completely lost. You don't even need spells, because the mechanics of the spell and magic system don't allow for it.


    I'll grant the crafting system is pretty boring in 3E and could use revamping, but just like 2E, 3E invites house rules. Over the course of a few years, some friends and I turned 3.5/Pathfinder into a ridiculous Space Opera ruleset with mechanics for all sorts of crazyness. We had nearly as much fun trying to keep it in some marginally sane balance as we had actually playing the equally ridiculous campaigns it spawned.

    Quote:

    If I have any regrets, it's that I didn't quit sooner. It really is a waste of time better spent elsewhere either way; the only good thing that came with 3rd editon, is my realization of that. The fact that most players are pot-smoking, narcisistic idiots wasn't enough by itself; as I always figured I could find a good group. I never did.

    Now it holds no appeal for me; or very little.


    The inability to find a good group is why I don't play atm. I don't call that problem an Editional problem, I call it a problem of moving around and being busy.

    I had fun in the last 4E game I played, though I didn't get the same pleasure from monkeying with my character as I did in 3E. I had fun in the last 2E game I played, but I spent quite a while struggling with the overly complex rules. 3E/3.5 represents a middle ground between Balanced(but simple) and Complex(but broken[Hi 2E Psions]).

    "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
    Flakey Foont
    #58 - 2012-01-09 21:21:47 UTC
    DrunkenNinja wrote:
    You guys are missing the point. Games like Starcraft are the antithesis of games like EVE and WoW (I used D&D as a hilarious example).
    This is why EVE isn't that fun imo.



    So you are leaving?
    Wolf Kruol
    1st Tikiona Lancers
    Citizen's Star Republic
    #59 - 2012-01-09 22:17:00 UTC
    I've played First edition Dungeons and Dragons.. Ok for its time. Second Edition AD&D was my favorit. 3rd Edition is tollerable... 4th edition sucks balls. I won't touch that nonsense..

    Eve.. best of them all.. Rules. Blink

    No other game needed to satify my lust for god hood... Twisted Eve Quenches my thirst.

    Most games today are in some form or other born from table top RPGs.

    But then I'm old school... i haven't played AD&D in 18 years so.. I'm kinda rusty.. P

    “If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

    You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”
    MadMuppet
    Critical Mass Inc
    #60 - 2012-01-09 22:25:11 UTC
    DM - "You turn the corner and find yourself face to face with a rust monster"

    PC - "A Rifter or a Hurricane?"

    This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

    "If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet