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Three Types of Interdictors - Battleship Interdictors
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-01-02 23:23:57 UTC
This forum post is to describe a system in which there are three types of interdictor ships, and how they all fit together. My changes to existing interdictors will be explained by how they fit into the entire interdictor puzzle. This is not necessarily a proposal, and is meant primarily for discussion and to spark ideas in the brilliant minds of you guys reading this.




THE BUBBLES

Small Bubble

  • dropped in place by interdictor
  • stays where it is dropped
  • indestructible
  • a new bubble can be launched before the old one expires

Interdiction Sphere Launcher
200Tf // 16MW
Script option for smaller bubble that tackles and webs any capital ships in its radius



Medium Bubble

  • follows interdictor
  • one interdictor can only run one bubble at a time
  • can only be destroyed by destroying the interdictor running the bubble

Warp Disruption Field Generator
100Tf // 160MW
Script option for single target projected effect which tackles any ship regardless of its warp strength



Large Bubble

  • launched out of ship to a remote location
  • stays where it lands
  • can be destroyed directly--difficult to target but easy with bombs
  • a new bubble can be launched before the old one expires

Interdiction Sphere Launcher
50Tf // 1600MW
Script option which fires a shot at a single ship and shuts down its warp drive for the duration, with no way to shut off the effect and restore warp functionality--drawback is high spool up time which can be seen externally



Each bubble has advantages and disadvantages, so no one bubble is best--however the bubbles launched from the larger launchers do actually cover a larger radius so they will probably be more popular for that reason.


THE SHIPS

Interdictor Destroyer

  • primarily fits small interdiction module, but can squeeze in a medium
  • works well with small because of its high speed and small sig radius allowing it to move into position to drop bubble
  • can work with medium because its maneuverability can be what keeps it alive
  • so fast it wouldn't need to use large even if it could

75% reduction in powergrid and CPU cost of fitting interdiction modules



Interdictor Cruiser

  • fits medium most comfortably but can fit large or small
  • most comfortable with all three overall, thus most flexible
  • durable enough to use medium well, the interdictor's durability and maneuverability protect the bubble it carries
  • fast enough to use the small
  • extra maneuverability over battleship can be useful for placing large bubbles
  • can survive fire from capital ships making it a possible option for tackling supers depending on enemy fleet composition

50% reduction in powergrid and CPU cost of fitting interdiction modules



Interdictor Battleship

  • fits large most comfortably, smaller types cost more CPU but can still fit
  • too slow to use small very well
  • high durability can be useful for maintaining medium
  • low maneuverability isn't much of a drawback when using large
  • can survive heavy fire from subcap support fleet making it a possible option for tackling supers depending on enemy fleet composition

no reduction in cost of fitting interdiction modules







Let me know what you think, but please refrain from using comparisons with existing interdictors that do not match what I put here to validate or invalidate my ideas.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#2 - 2016-01-02 23:58:22 UTC
I like the idea of remote bubbles, akin to remote ECM-Burst. However, I would consider the ability of being able to uncloak, launch bubble in a drag position on gate/station far away and snipe while balancing something like this.

It does add a new distinct possible class for a T2 Battleship (Yay, T2 Rokhs, Hyperions, Abaddon and Maelstroms).

I also think it would be better not to mix different bubble sizes between the classes, especially at the beginning for better balance choices if something like this gets released. Makes each class much more distinct and gives them a clear role for a specific need, removing the possibility of "I fit medium on battleship interdictors since 95% of the time, medium performs better then"

Perhaps the scripted version of the battleship mod would be the one that perma-hard-tackles like a scram at 35km (instead of the scripted warp disruption field generators we have now on hictors), while the hictor variant would act as a regular infinite point at current range with the added "normal" scram range bonus effect: infinite scram at optimal (first 10-13km), infinite point until end of fall-off (30-35km)
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-01-03 17:29:12 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
I also think it would be better not to mix different bubble sizes between the classes, especially at the beginning for better balance choices if something like this gets released. Makes each class much more distinct and gives them a clear role for a specific need, removing the possibility of "I fit medium on battleship interdictors since 95% of the time, medium performs better then"

Perhaps the scripted version of the battleship mod would be the one that perma-hard-tackles like a scram at 35km (instead of the scripted warp disruption field generators we have now on hictors), while the hictor variant would act as a regular infinite point at current range with the added "normal" scram range bonus effect: infinite scram at optimal (first 10-13km), infinite point until end of fall-off (30-35km)

I always liked giving people more choices. I feel it's good to give a ship a primary choice for a role, then discourage it a bit from using things for other roles, but let it fit that if its pilot deems it necessary enough. I did make the bigger bubbles better for the bigger ships in addition to making the fit more comfortable for them. But it also gives you more options on the more expensive ship. I could make the alternate bubbles more difficult to cross-fit. If really necessary, they could each be set specifically for the one class of interdictor--but I'd rather see a balance in which you can expect any given interdictor to fly its main bubble and it typically will, but occasionally and for specific niches it'll have a different one--and I think that can be achieved by tweaking the fitting difficulty for each ship.


I wanted to keep the medium module as being the one that acts like a warp disruptor because medium is the one that rides with the ship. You have a cool idea about scramming, but I'd rather just see larger disruptors and scramblers with more range that larger ships can fit. It'd be nice to conscript battlecruisers and battleships into the game of tackling ships.





Here's interdictor fitting costs option two, for greater restrictions:

Small:
800Tf CPU // 8MW Powergrid
-93.75% CPU cost

Medium:
200Tf CPU // 80MW Powergrid
-75% CPU cost

Large:
50Tf CPU // 800MW Powergrid

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2016-01-03 18:36:16 UTC
Why is the small bubble now indestructible? That is a huge buff to interdiction bubbles since they cannot be smartbombed away.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#5 - 2016-01-03 19:10:38 UTC
So dictors gets an indestructible bubble (Massive buff that isn't needed)
Hictors stay the same
Massive Dictors will get a remote bubble and gets a DD like scripted ability

So specifically for the Massive Dictors, I do like more T2 options for people to fly and having the remote bubble option does give it a unique flavor compared to the other two. Now for the DD, it would need to have a spoolup timer similar to that of a MJD, as well as a sig radius bloom during the spool up. From there, there might need to be more balance options around keeping the Massive Dictor in the fight if he uses this option. It shouldn't be a thing where it warps in at its max range, fires his DD, MJD away and cloaks until he needs to fire again. From there if the Massive Dictor gets its lock broken during the spool up, then it should incur the cooldown, but not put the effect on the target (Much like when someone gets scrammed during a MJD spoolup).

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-01-03 19:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Hopelesshobo wrote:
So dictors gets an indestructible bubble (Massive buff that isn't needed)
Hictors stay the same
Massive Dictors will get a remote bubble and gets a DD like scripted ability

I've never actually seen anyone destroy an interdictor's bubble but it's not that huge of a buff considering you can just move out of it or wait for it to end. If you want to make them stop dropping bubbles, shoot the interdictor(s). There are other changes that could be made that I simply didn't go over, that could balance it further--you could reduce the radius of the small bubble and make them be dropped more often but not last as long. That's just one possibility.



There definitely needs to be some things in place to keep the large interdictor bubble from dominating too much. I was thinking maybe it spools up for a while, pointing at where the target was when it started spooling up, and fires the shot to that spot where it explodes over a small radius and disables the warp drive of all ships in the radius. This could be balanced to hit capital ships easily but be harder to hit battleships, and it should be downright easy for frigates and cruisers to get out of the way in time. Furthermore, subcaps could have their warp disabled for less time. Also, it could show the area of effect during spool-up so people know where to go to get out of the effect radius. Want to keep them in it? Web them.

Wouldn't hurt if it also disabled the interdictor's warp in order to fire it. As a consideration for the safety of the interdictor, they could cancel the effect during spool-up which would give a partial cooldown before they can try again but would not send the effect and would not disable the interdictor's warp drive.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2016-01-03 21:36:18 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
So dictors gets an indestructible bubble (Massive buff that isn't needed)
Hictors stay the same
Massive Dictors will get a remote bubble and gets a DD like scripted ability

I've never actually seen anyone destroy an interdictor's bubble but it's not that huge of a buff considering you can just move out of it or wait for it to end. If you want to make them stop dropping bubbles, shoot the interdictor(s). There are other changes that could be made that I simply didn't go over, that could balance it further--you could reduce the radius of the small bubble and make them be dropped more often but not last as long. That's just one possibility.



Everyone who has actually used a dictor in an engagement with more than one carrier has seen bubbles smartbombed off. It happens, a lot. Why do you think people fit smartbombs on supers, carriers and titans in the first place?

Please explain, without just dismissing the statement, why dictors need that kind of a buff.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-01-04 00:45:19 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Everyone who has actually used a dictor in an engagement with more than one carrier has seen bubbles smartbombed off. It happens, a lot. Why do you think people fit smartbombs on supers, carriers and titans in the first place?

Please explain, without just dismissing the statement, why dictors need that kind of a buff.

To be honest, I thought they were already indestructible. I can't target them and I have never seen anyone even take a shot at blowing them up. I don't really think they need it though--after being told they aren't indestructible, I did a bit of research and found out they have 1000 HP. I think that's decently difficult to blow up already. So could just make the large probes easier to kill, maybe they'd have more HP but be targetable or something. But I also don't see why making them indestructible is going to change a whole lot. Sure, they are being used to tackle supers, and super support gangs are bombing them out. So with my system there's plenty of excellent options to tackle supers with the other interdictors, and even the small ones can help--or they can fit the medium bubble and tackle supers by their own selves--if they don't get blown up while doing it.

But more importantly, I see the small interdictor as being best for tackling subcaps and I actually wanted to see the large as being best for tackling supercaps, so it takes a little bit of time and ISK investment to get it into place. But of course they need to be useful against subcaps even if they aren't the best one against subcaps, or else nobody will own one and thus nobody will ever have one around when it's needed.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#9 - 2016-01-04 01:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Thor Kerrigan
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

Here's interdictor fitting costs option two, for greater restrictions:

Small:
800Tf CPU // 8MW Powergrid
-93.75% CPU cost

Medium:
200Tf CPU // 80MW Powergrid
-75% CPU cost

Large:
50Tf CPU // 800MW Powergrid


That's fine as long as the "other choice" is clearly not the best all around, but rather an out of the box special fit. Giving battleships the cruiser mods, if mobility is already not important, makes them the best choice all the time.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-01-04 02:20:02 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
That's fine as long as the "other choice" is clearly not the best all around, but rather an out of the box special fit. Giving battleships the cruiser mods, if mobility is already not important, makes them the best choice all the time.

Not very good when you can't chase down the enemy ships. It's a lot easier to get a cruiser into position. The battleships will greatly prefer not having to move around a lot in order to drop a bubble.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."