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TiDi

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Starbuilder Stasarik
Doomheim
#61 - 2016-01-03 04:26:52 UTC
Just a little note about the whole "just update to multithread / not easy but still doable" bit...

I'm a software developer who works in the banking industry in the States. I've done updates on legacy systems, I've done total rewrites, I've done burn-it-all-down-and-start-fresh jobs, I've done... basically everything in this regard. This includes updating complex single-core systems to be multi-threaded systems.

For a game like EVE, with everything it has going on and the size of CCP's development team, to update it from single-core to multi-thread (from development to release, including all the QA and iteration your mind could never handle), you're probably going to be looking at ~2 years with their current development team's size, and that's if they focus on nothing else. It would be two years without any updates to anything else. Nothing new. Nothing fresh. Nothing of interest except two years of the same thing that would be invisible to players until it was released (and would be a hive of bugs for the first few months after, even with the best QA imaginable).

Will it be worth it to spend two years and millions of dollars to turn the game into a multi-threaded system? Would it be better to keep the current "good enough" system of TIDI and instead update the hardware? How would players react if there were nothing but tweaks for two years? How would players react when the first release is a nest of bugs?

CCP have already answered these types of questions with their actions. TIDI is a "good enough" system for what they currently have, and is less detrimental than updating would be. It's far cheaper and easier in this case to update the hardware.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2016-01-03 05:02:12 UTC
funny I only been in 2 fights where Tidi was significant enough to effect the enjoyment level and in both despite 10% TiDi i was still alpha'd off the field in a blue-tanked battleship. It really just confirmed to me how boring big ass fleets are. I guess getting alpha'd off faster means you can be into your LOL game sooner since without tidi there would be no way to reinforce the fight (And probably that would significantly effect the chances of a large fight even happening)

Oh and those reinforced server nodes do wonders. I'm in Low-sec we hit tidi around 100 in local
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#63 - 2016-01-03 05:13:59 UTC
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#64 - 2016-01-03 10:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Starbuilder Stasarik wrote:
(from development to release, including all the QA and iteration your mind could never handle)
I love little digs like this, like you're the only person in the world with development experience and noone else could possible imagine how it's done. This generally writes off anything that follows in my mind as it usually means the poster is 12.

Starbuilder Stasarik wrote:
you're probably going to be looking at ~2 years with their current development team's size, and that's if they focus on nothing else. It would be two years without any updates to anything else. Nothing new. Nothing fresh.
I'd very much doubt that. The servers are modular, so it's not like they would have to rewrite absolutely everything, just SOL. I've seen bigger projects done by smaller teams in less time. That said it would be a long project for a couple of teams, but IMHO the payoff would be worth it since it would actually allow the main thing people liked about EVE. Big battles is what it's all about and they've hit a wall with them because they aren't utilising their hardware very well.

Starbuilder Stasarik wrote:
(CCP have already answered these types of questions with their actions. TIDI is a "good enough" system for what they currently have, and is less detrimental than updating would be. It's far cheaper and easier in this case to update the hardware.
It's not though, is it? Most people would generally avoid tidi fights because they absolutely suck. Sitting about for 12 hours doing something that could have been accomplished in a couple watching things not even starting to cycle for half an hour isn't fun. Even CCP knows tidi isn't the solution which is why instead they are breaking up fights to make the chances of a big fight occurring much smaller. Shame that destroys a huge amount of appeal for the game really.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Solecist Project
#65 - 2016-01-03 10:19:38 UTC
The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ...
... and that it never happened ...
... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight.

Ever. Never has. Never will be. And no one, not a single one,
actually prefers Tidi over blackscreens.

How you can keep talking to obious hypocrites, who declare truths opposite to reality is beyond me.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#66 - 2016-01-03 13:29:09 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ...
... and that it never happened ...
... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight.

Ever. Never has. Never will be. And no one, not a single one,
actually prefers Tidi over blackscreens.

How you can keep talking to obious hypocrites, who declare truths opposite to reality is beyond me.
Yes they do, yes it did, yes they would.
No. Yes it has. Yes it will. Yes they do.Lol


To answer your last statement in a far more serious way:
Talking is easy. Making people understand, now that is hard.

And in some cases a futile attempt at reaching an impossible goal.

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Solecist Project
#67 - 2016-01-03 13:55:53 UTC
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ...
... and that it never happened ...
... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight.

Ever. Never has. Never will be. And no one, not a single one,
actually prefers Tidi over blackscreens.

How you can keep talking to obious hypocrites, who declare truths opposite to reality is beyond me.
Yes they do, yes it did, yes they would.
No. Yes it has. Yes it will. Yes they do.Lol


To answer your last statement in a far more serious way:
Talking is easy. Making people understand, now that is hard.

And in some cases a futile attempt at reaching an impossible goal.

You can NOT make someone who does not care about the truth understand it.
That is a sign of weakness. People who keep argueing over and over,
despite the obvious signs that anything past a first attempt it is futile,
are only ever attempting to serve themselves.

Because "You are wrong, get it already!"

People are mindless puppets and Lucas is the one pulling their strings.

More news at 11.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#68 - 2016-01-03 14:41:17 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ...
... and that it never happened ...
... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight.
So because nearly a year ago there was a fight that people showed up to, that automatically means that people enjoy fighting in 10% tidi with soul crushing lag? I really don't think there are many people that enjoy being in a heavy tidi fight which is why these generally only occur when people have to show up to defend their assets. Now with entosis modules it would be even worse too, since you could sit there for several hours only to watch the entosis ship pop and reset your progress. At least with structure shoots you could see slow but steady progress.

The thing is, people see these sped up videos of massive battles and read these headlines about thousands of dollars of damage, but they show up and the reality is they will click a button then wait several hours for either their target or themselves to explode. How in any way is that good?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#69 - 2016-01-03 15:54:05 UTC
Lucas just wants to see the game burn because CCP banned his cheat input-multiplex mining fleet. That's why he tries so hard to push every idiotic game destroying idea. If you don't believe me there is a sticky thread full of tears in the GD forum. There is really no need to ever talk to him, just ignore the troll and all will be good.

Evil RatKid
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#70 - 2016-01-03 16:34:11 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucas just wants to see the game burn because CCP banned his cheat input-multiplex mining fleet. That's why he tries so hard to push every idiotic game destroying idea. If you don't believe me there is a sticky thread full of tears in the GD forum. There is really no need to ever talk to him, just ignore the troll and all will be good.
Once again, I'm unphased by a piece of software I didn't use being partially banned. Once again you embarrass yourself by making assumptions that are clearly wrong.

With the ISBoxer change I'd have rather seen CCP improve the game rather than work around the real problem. If the game was challenging to play, people couldn't use broadcasting or mass manual multiboxing to do it. This is EXACTLY the same. Instead of making fleet fights less likely to occur, I'd rather see CCP improve the game so they can work in a way that excites and engages players.

Honestly, I'm shocked you still seem to be incapable of either reading or comprehending these things, but repeatedly showing up attempting to troll me really doesn't work when you're that clueless.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Solecist Project
#71 - 2016-01-03 17:55:36 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucas just wants to see the game burn because CCP banned his cheat input-multiplex mining fleet. That's why he tries so hard to push every idiotic game destroying idea. If you don't believe me there is a sticky thread full of tears in the GD forum. There is really no need to ever talk to him, just ignore the troll and all will be good.

Troll isn't really the right word to use. There's plenty of better words that describe him ...
... some of which I've used already, which are pretty accurate.

Someone writing "Honestly, I'm shocked" helps a lot exposing his "honesty" and sincereness.

People will learn, eventually ... and the rest isn't worth it anyway.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#72 - 2016-01-03 18:35:13 UTC
Haylp! A nobody insulted me.
From someone like Solecist that contributes absolutely nothing to the community, attacks on my character mean less than nothing.

Ed: And stop derailing the thread. Keep it on topic.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#73 - 2016-01-04 02:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
About the time to multi-thread eve: I am reminded of a story.

A homeowner wanted some shade for his study. He decided to buy a small tree and let it grow, to provide the coverage. He got the tree and told his gardener to make sure he planted the tree that week.
"This week? Does it have to be this week? I have quite a few other jobs to do. After all, it will take five years for that tree to grow large enough to properly shade the study."
"Five years?" The homeowner exclaimed. "Then you better plant it today."

Something taking a long time to do is not an excuse to put off starting, it's a reason to start as soon as possible.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#74 - 2016-01-04 02:42:33 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Something taking a long time to do is not an excuse to put off starting, it's a reason to start as soon as possible.

This is very true. As long as it's the right thing to do.
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#75 - 2016-01-04 06:04:53 UTC
Damn it, i ran out of popcorn.

Anyone know a good home delivery service?
Solecist Project
#76 - 2016-01-04 09:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Vincent Athena wrote:
Something taking a long time to do is not an excuse to put off starting, it's a reason to start as soon as possible.
No context, but ...

Should we have children at the earliest possible age?


XD

Oh and look at how angry LK got. Isn't he cute,
being butthurt like this? ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#77 - 2016-01-04 09:25:50 UTC
Hate to burst your bubble but I don't get angry over video games.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Solecist Project
#78 - 2016-01-04 10:17:23 UTC

Which shows how disconnected from reality you really are ...
... and what you really think of all of us ...
... because we are people, not a video game. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Bringer of BadNews
Doomheim
#79 - 2016-01-04 11:14:24 UTC
ISD Buldath wrote:
Greetings Pilot!

I would like to invite you to apply to www.ccpgames.com/jobs if you believe you are capable of creating a multi threaded experience For Tranquility that CCP could use to remove Tidi, since you believe it to be so easy. CCP Could really use your Expertise and assistance on such a grand task!


well why apply to help CCP fight tidi if CCP keeps allocating a lot of money to complete different projects like a failed vampire none sense MMO, Dust for an outdated console and now Valkyrie, that most probably would have been history by now if CCP would not have somehow convinced Zuckerberg to bundle it up with OR.

You know how depressing it would be to have talents go for for a company and they see that most of the money goes to complete different projects which leaves them without any chance to actually help the company in its main game?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#80 - 2016-01-04 15:31:04 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

Which shows how disconnected from reality you really are ...
... and what you really think of all of us ...
... because we are people, not a video game. :)

No, but you are random players on the internet playing a game. Anyone that gets broken up because random people on the internet don't like them needs some serious help, and probably shouldn't be playing MMOs.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.