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Lamenting the life of a Trader...
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HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-01-02 03:41:31 UTC
Market discussions is the one forum where you can't share the information that's pertinent to the forum.
So so so many times over the years I've wanted to share where i'm putting my isk but for obvious reasons a large majority of the time I must refrain from sharing both what I'm thinking and what I'm doing. As have many of you.
Who has something to share but that they will not share in this thread?

I DO! 0/

...and some day within the next couple of years i'm going to share how I became a trillionair!

Here's to not sharing what we desire to share and the reasons we're continually checking this forum for information we know won't be found here.

Cheers! Big smile
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#2 - 2016-01-02 03:49:54 UTC
Trade secrets are for losers, it's all in my contract history Bear.

Stop fishing.

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-01-02 04:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Trade secrets are for losers, it's all in my contract history Bear.

Stop fishing.


Whatever neophyte. I'll bet my current investments are topping yours by 1000%. Blink

And by the way I see your work in jita all the time. Your contracts are always 1isk above mine.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#4 - 2016-01-02 04:24:25 UTC
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-01-02 04:41:48 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
I come for the latest ponzi. #getin #getout


No shortage of those unfortunately.Roll
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-01-02 06:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Orti
I'm tempted to calculate how much info I can publish (nevermind sharing, I'm not in the business to make friends but money or income) so that, even if the vultures from vault number will do their grand theft info number, I can beat them back to it after.

So, what is the best market trap setup, and ligit at that?

I'm not afraid of secrets, and I'm not afraid to use them to the proper advantage whether it is to use them wisely, or to see what others can do with it.

I'm not willing to keep secrets that would make it harder for the game "system" to progress or thrive.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#7 - 2016-01-02 07:50:44 UTC
There are precedents

My channel: "Signatures" -
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#8 - 2016-01-02 07:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerry T Pepridge
HeXxploiT wrote:
Whatever neophyte. I'll bet my current investments are topping yours by 1000%. Blink

And by the way I see your work in jita all the time. Your contracts are always 1isk above mine.


Pretty Cocky for a guy with 1b in Junk modules. Roll Break out a 100b Bond then and see how many ppl fill it, please i havent been able to pledge 20b for ages, no-one is doing them anymore. (may have to make an alt) Norn probs has more random mission junk/T2 modules and random ships lying around than you and i both wealth combined.

Attitude like that will keep you at the kids table, and you will miss out on so many opportunities.

Anyways on topic,

When Bowheads come out a friend (coincidence) & I manipulated the Capital hull rig market up 1000%, I sold about 100~ 14m Isk rigs for @150m+ we had a monopoly for the first weeks & got out in time, (before it was over produced & we crashed the price back to lower than the build cost) Believe it or not i sold more in Amarr than Jita. but yeh we dominated every hub for that product.

It's nice the module tiericide but its a slow one, so i did not sink much more than a couple hundred into it, one product in particular will be worth a fortune.

TBH i'm more impressed with Leocaldari manip of the MWD's.

Since coming back im noticing way less activity on the markets & im making way more on margins. As usual, daytrading(for lack of a better word) is far more profitable than speculation.

Sometimes you can piggy back others manip's, thats the fun one, just don't get caught with the bag. Take a look at the Gnosis Market, Across new Eden. I Sold my stock (30 odd) last night at 95m.

@JerryTPepridge
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#9 - 2016-01-02 09:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:
Whatever neophyte. I'll bet my current investments are topping yours by 1000%. Blink

And by the way I see your work in jita all the time. Your contracts are always 1isk above mine.


Pretty Cocky for a guy with 1b in Junk modules. Roll Break out a 100b Bond then and see how many ppl fill it, please i havent been able to pledge 20b for ages, no-one is doing them anymore. (may have to make an alt) Norn probs has more random mission junk/T2 modules and random ships lying around than you and i both wealth combined.

Attitude like that will keep you at the kids table, and you will miss out on so many opportunities.

Anyways on topic,

When Bowheads come out a friend (coincidence) & I manipulated the Capital hull rig market up 1000%, I sold about 100~ 14m Isk rigs for @150m+ we had a monopoly for the first weeks & got out in time, (before it was over produced & we crashed the price back to lower than the build cost) Believe it or not i sold more in Amarr than Jita. but yeh we dominated every hub for that product.

It's nice the module tiericide but its a slow one, so i did not sink much more than a couple hundred into it, one product in particular will be worth a fortune.

TBH i'm more impressed with Leocaldari manip of the MWD's.

Since coming back im noticing way less activity on the markets & im making way more on margins. As usual, daytrading(for lack of a better word) is far more profitable than speculation.

Sometimes you can piggy back others manip's, thats the fun one, just don't get caught with the bag. Take a look at the Gnosis Market, Across new Eden. I Sold my stock (30 odd) last night at 95m.


Jerry buddy...first off I was being jocular. Secondly you're the one who said you have a billion worth.
My junkpile is considerably larger. Blink
http://puu.sh/mgItA/e87ee3371e.jpg

Every post is not a fishing attempt. Learn to have fun. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#10 - 2016-01-02 09:34:25 UTC
HeXxploiT wrote:

Jerry buddy...first off I was being jocular. Secondly you're the one who said you have a billion worth.
My junkpile is considerably larger. Blink
http://puu.sh/mgItA/e87ee3371e.jpg

Every post is not a fishing attempt. Learn to have fun. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


i Didn't say it was a fishing post, just that you were being a douche, its obvious you couldn't wait to post the screenie or u think that is alot of isk or something.it is a nice pile. i wonder if you will still be playing by the time they change those, i noticed that the prices were falling for some junk modules again.

mine is inside a container, it says atm 253m, i think i put in 100m, sold off one that had changed in the meantime, 1500 units bought at 5-6k sold at 77k, i helped it up kind off though.

@JerryTPepridge
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#11 - 2016-01-02 09:57:25 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
TBH i'm more impressed with Leocaldari manip of the MWD's.


Is he still doing Jita hub only?
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-01-02 18:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:

Jerry buddy...first off I was being jocular. Secondly you're the one who said you have a billion worth.
My junkpile is considerably larger. Blink
http://puu.sh/mgItA/e87ee3371e.jpg

Every post is not a fishing attempt. Learn to have fun. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


i Didn't say it was a fishing post, just that you were being a douche, its obvious you couldn't wait to post the screenie or u think that is alot of isk or something.it is a nice pile. i wonder if you will still be playing by the time they change those, i noticed that the prices were falling for some junk modules again.

mine is inside a container, it says atm 253m, i think i put in 100m, sold off one that had changed in the meantime, 1500 units bought at 5-6k sold at 77k, i helped it up kind off though.



Geez you're such a downer man. This aint real life and success in game shouldn't have anything to do with ones value as a human being nor ones self-esteem. If you make lots of isk you're SUPPOSED to gloat about it. Anything you excel at in eve is a victory that deserves gloating. On that note I can assure you my profits from Tiericide have been considerably better than yours on a percentage basis. If that makes you angry then it means I'm WINNING!

Now back on topic since you so begrudgingly derailed my thread.

The thread title concerned all the times you wanted to share your investment & ideas but couldn't.
I can't help but find frustrating comedy in this truism.
Angelica Everstar
#13 - 2016-01-02 18:36:10 UTC
Day trading with 1b, 10b, 100b, 1.000b and 10.000b is not all better than speculation - trust me Twisted
The higher amount, the better speculation becomes, and at some point, it's not even speculation but manipulation that is best strategi Cool

§ Current Bond AE09 1 Trillion / Acc. 4,5t ISK

ƒ Want to become a better trader ?

¢ Pls help support EVEs charities!

@EveEntrepreneur
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-01-02 20:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
Angelica Everstar wrote:
Day trading with 1b, 10b, 100b, 1.000b and 10.000b is not all better than speculation - trust me Twisted
The higher amount, the better speculation becomes, and at some point, it's not even speculation but manipulation that is best strategi Cool


Well from personal experience speculation, if done correctly, is superior to manipulation. Reason being is that with speculation you're dealing with inherent value whereas with manipulation you have artificially inflated value which can at times bite one in the ass.

Everyone's knowledge is different however so we each have abilities in different areas.
Personally manipulation has averaged me hundreds of percentage point returns whereas speculation has netted me % in the thousands.
Darkstar01
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-01-02 21:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkstar01
HeXxploiT wrote:
Angelica Everstar wrote:
Day trading with 1b, 10b, 100b, 1.000b and 10.000b is not all better than speculation - trust me Twisted
The higher amount, the better speculation becomes, and at some point, it's not even speculation but manipulation that is best strategi Cool


Well from personal experience speculation, if done correctly, is superior to manipulation. Reason being is that with speculation you're dealing with inherent value whereas with manipulation you have artificially inflated value which can at times bite one in the ass.

Everyone's knowledge is different however so we each have abilities in different areas.
Personally manipulation has averaged me hundreds of percentage point returns whereas speculation has netted me % in the thousands.


This is true, manipulation doesn't yield as high of a profit as speculation, because when a speculation succeeds, it's usually due to a fundamental change in the game.

You could, however, add strategy to your speculation activities (which is what I do). I guess this can be considered "manipulation"?

For example, if you are pretty confident that item X will go up in value due to a fundamental game change, and you want to be one of the largest holders of item X, then you would start accumulating.

After you finish accumulating, then you could dedicate another portion of your wallet to prop up the price of item X, until the fundamental changes come into effect. (So you have to make sure your wallet is big enough for it, and also that you are correct in your speculation. If you are wrong, then you'll probably have to liquidate your holdings at a discount.)

Since you are one of the earliest speculators in item X, and also one of the largest holders of item X - After you've finished accumulating at low low prices, you can place buy orders to set a price floor for the item. So when other speculators come along, they have to start accumulating at the average price that you dictate.

Depending on what your average cost is, this can put you in a favorable position. Because most of the other speculators after you, would have very similar, or higher average cost than you.
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#16 - 2016-01-02 22:15:10 UTC
Darkstar01 wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:
Angelica Everstar wrote:
Day trading with 1b, 10b, 100b, 1.000b and 10.000b is not all better than speculation - trust me Twisted
The higher amount, the better speculation becomes, and at some point, it's not even speculation but manipulation that is best strategi Cool


Well from personal experience speculation, if done correctly, is superior to manipulation. Reason being is that with speculation you're dealing with inherent value whereas with manipulation you have artificially inflated value which can at times bite one in the ass.

Everyone's knowledge is different however so we each have abilities in different areas.
Personally manipulation has averaged me hundreds of percentage point returns whereas speculation has netted me % in the thousands.


This is true, manipulation doesn't yield as high of a profit as speculation, because when a speculation succeeds, it's usually due to a fundamental change in the game.

You could, however, add strategy to your speculation activities (which is what I do). I guess this can be considered "manipulation"?

For example, if you are pretty confident that item X will go up in value due to a fundamental game change, and you want to be one of the largest holders of item X, then you would start accumulating.

After you finish accumulating, then you could dedicate another portion of your wallet to prop up the price of item X, until the fundamental changes come into effect. (So you have to make sure your wallet is big enough for it, and also that you are correct in your speculation. If you are wrong, then you'll probably have to liquidate your holdings at a discount.)

Since you are one of the earliest speculators in item X, and also one of the largest holders of item X - After you've finished accumulating at low low prices, you can place buy orders to set a price floor for the item. So when other speculators come along, they have to start accumulating at the average price that you dictate.

Depending on what your average cost is, this can put you in a favorable position. Because most of the other speculators after you, would have very similar, or higher average cost than you.


Very well put. I do engage in this sort of practice daily however I don't really consider raising the bid manipulation. There is real demand for item x and I'm merely closing the gap on the spread. I suppose in my mind it becomes manipulation when one is buying up all the orders on the ask and relisting item x at a higher price.
Darkstar01
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-01-02 22:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkstar01
HeXxploiT wrote:


I suppose in my mind it becomes manipulation when one is buying up all the orders on the ask and relisting item x at a higher price



I think this kind of manipulation only works in a meaningful way if you are in control of the supply.

Like you have to be in control of how much quantity of this item actually gets generated in the game, and placed on the market. Without this type of control, the profit would just be very small and temporary (if there are any profits at all).

So the manipulation has to come from the supply side that actually generate the item. For example, the high-end moon goo cartel that use to dominate the market.

Another example is the ice interdiction. They disrupted the amount of ice that gets generated in the game, by killing miners.

Just buying up the Sell Order wouldn't work (or it would only produce very small, temporary profits).
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#18 - 2016-01-03 05:14:29 UTC
Darkstar01 wrote:

Just buying up the Sell Order wouldn't work (or it would only produce very small, temporary profits).


Depends on the product. The ones i invest in, i regularly do this to contract the market.

Also, Speculation can be great ISK. Has it become less of thing with the constant patches though?, i think there was a recent (maybe a year ago) recon ship rebalancing, and lots of ppl speculated on them, not sure how it turned out though some friends say they were at break even. I Made a packet on BC BPO's & the NPC price reset during Ship tiericide. and i know the king of procurers is doing well (the guy that built 22,000?? procurers)

The way i view isk i spend on speculation though, is ISK i can't use for opportunities in the now. that's Why i favor only spending small % of wealth of speculation. Especially when its not a quick turn-around. Id Say why i think that is probably to do with the amount of isk im daytrading with (atm NAV on trader is about 36b, Production is about 5b)

@Hexx, i bought some more junk modules dude, lol im gonna be riiiich (in 7 years time....... Shocked)

@JerryTPepridge
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2016-01-03 06:40:00 UTC
Darkstar01 wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:


I suppose in my mind it becomes manipulation when one is buying up all the orders on the ask and relisting item x at a higher price



I think this kind of manipulation only works in a meaningful way if you are in control of the supply.

Like you have to be in control of how much quantity of this item actually gets generated in the game, and placed on the market. Without this type of control, the profit would just be very small and temporary (if there are any profits at all).

So the manipulation has to come from the supply side that actually generate the item. For example, the high-end moon goo cartel that use to dominate the market.

Another example is the ice interdiction. They disrupted the amount of ice that gets generated in the game, by killing miners.

Just buying up the Sell Order wouldn't work (or it would only produce very small, temporary profits).



You can influence gamewide supply without controlling it.

I have never done any Planetary Interaction, but had a considerable (albeit short-lived) impact on gamewide supply of Robotics a while back.

I wanted the price to fall, so I asked around for someone that knew about PI, and paid them to write a forum guide to PI aimed at new players, conveniently using Robotics as the example. The price fell about 12% once the increased supply flowed through (after 6-10 weeks).

Bigger players than me can take more decisive actions than that. A trader with a hundred billion units of Mexallon might want to offer CODE. 10 billion to shift their focus to shooting barges that are harvesting Mex-heavy rocks in highsec, for instance.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#20 - 2016-01-03 06:51:20 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
A trader with a hundred billion units of Mexallon might want to offer CODE. 10 billion to shift their focus to shooting barges that are harvesting Mex-heavy rocks in highsec, for instance.


CODE are not that organised - and you'd be wasting your money to attempt such a thing
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