These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3361 - 2016-01-02 15:51:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
It doesn't take an IQ of 140 to realise that if you're part of a really large group, because you joined the biggest group you could find, there's not going to be much fighting or personal input and that it's all going to be very bland.

I like how this line basically sums up all the issues with the game ...
... including a serious lack of ... uhm ... above average intellect ... of it's newer players.

And I mean specifically those who get sucked into corps like KarmaFleet.


It's a direct result of CCP's long standing plan to make EVE more palatable to the average player combined with the silliness that is coalition politics and motives.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3362 - 2016-01-02 16:13:13 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:

It doesn't take an IQ of 140 to realise that if you're part of a really large group, because you joined the biggest group you could find, there's not going to be much fighting or personal input and that it's all going to be very bland.



Might be bland, but at least you won't be getting your ass shot up. Or go crazy PVEing in Hi-sec. EVE's pretty much been an all or nothing sort of game. You either stay in Hi-sec and PVE or join a big alliance and move into null/low sec.

There are some outliers that can make it as a small completely independent (no Blue-ing) corporation or small alliance, but they don't occur enough to change the landscape.

Also, as a bit of real life taste in the corporate world, EVE's corporations are acting exactly like the real world corporations.

I'm sure people have wondered why a company like Coca Cola doesn't try to take down Pepsi. Or why AT&T doesn't go after Verizon.

...it's simple, we know the best way to do business is with an oligopoly. Rocking the boat just causes profits to slip and potentially ends up with you going out of business.

In EVE, we know the best way to 'have fun' (majority) is to not go picking fights. And have gentlemen wars with each other. -- Whens the last time an alliance went all in and obliterated their enemy, or died trying? (Seems it's been about a year since I saw any article covering a major battle in EVE, let alone one detailing the demise of an alliance.)
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3363 - 2016-01-02 16:29:13 UTC
Dyner wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

It doesn't take an IQ of 140 to realise that if you're part of a really large group, because you joined the biggest group you could find, there's not going to be much fighting or personal input and that it's all going to be very bland.



Might be bland, but at least you won't be getting your ass shot up.


Only if you suck. On top of that: someone might shoot your space pixels in a game about bashing eachother's heads in with space lasers, the horror!
Solecist Project
#3364 - 2016-01-02 16:30:32 UTC

There's something fishy about how this guy writes his lines ...
... besides him writing partly bullshit.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#3365 - 2016-01-02 17:01:13 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
It's not CCP's fault directly, it's just terrible entities growing fatter and fatter but CCP is already working on that, jump fatigue is a first step (and needs to be done more extensively)


A good deal of it is.

We've seen lots of Sov entities retreat or fragment into Low Sec entities recently, for many reasons, such as the fights being more frequent and accessible, and the distances between entities enabling conflict rather than outright preventing it. Newbies have a hard time utilizing the resources found in low, be them level 5s (require SP, know how, standings alts), FW (also a game of alts due to standings), etc. It's a great place to live for more experienced players, but a terrible place to live for newer players.

If they actually didn't like what they see in the big sov empires, the biggest way to deal with them now is to deny them the resource of tons of newbies, and the way to do that is to add accessible income streams to other places in the game; right now they are all located in High or Sov Null. People want to live in Low and NPC null; the game design itself makes this literally impossible. People are tired of sov, people hate sov as it asphyxiates real content creation and puts the reigns in the hands of too few. Give other locales a chance to compete for the player base, and you'd see the player base growing and engaged by the game, rather than fattened, bored, and apathetic.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3366 - 2016-01-02 17:20:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Well, people are different. some people enjoy solo or small gang, like Rote, but some also like the large fleets. As such there's nothing wrong with fleet combat but people shouldn't whine if they find it boring because they joined the biggest fleet. Years ago we people enjoyed SOV fights just fine (to a certain extend, obviously). Nothing much has changed other than the size and number of the different factions.

FW in itself is an affront to the sandbox (localised arbitrary rules and game mechanics resulting in massive income silliness), I never liked it for that reason and thus never did it. It needs to be nerfed.


There's a few things CCP should do to change the emphasis on high sec and make low worthwhile.

- move lvl 4 to low, lvl 3 being highest in HS is fine and lvl 4 can be done in smaller more agile ships making it work just fine in low
- move lvl 5 to npc null
- move 4 mineral types that are used for every day production to low only and give each faction one of them. This will create a pull to low which will attract pvp and will result in hybrid groups of both pvp as miners, interaction, activity, pvp opportunities, market opportunities. This would also be an incentive for miners to try their luck in low and be rewarded for it


CCP would score massive bonus points if they'd divide HS into 4 quadrants all separated by a band of low sec systems with multiple entry points. That way trading and transporting actually becomes meaningful, more of a specialisation and the whole "us vs them" of the 4 factions becomes more prevalent. It would make low sec as a concept meaningful, It would also lower the pressure on Jita.


This would require thinking outside the box and showcase an amount of confidence and long term vision I so very much want to see from CCP.
Solecist Project
#3367 - 2016-01-02 17:28:51 UTC
Well, iirc, they let all factions go at war with each other ...
... which I hope is a plus.

Moving lvl4s to low will most likely cause a drop in subs ....

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3368 - 2016-01-02 17:31:31 UTC
Subs from people who add nothing to the sandbox, who keep whining about changes to make life easier for them and to add more pve content.


Problem?
Solecist Project
#3369 - 2016-01-02 17:47:07 UTC

Removing lvl4s from high will also make a lot of PvPers with PvEalts angry...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3370 - 2016-01-02 17:51:34 UTC
Then they're more of a pve player than pvper. Lots of PVPers are actually carebears.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#3371 - 2016-01-02 17:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Xelitras
Gregor Parud wrote:
Well, people are different. some people enjoy solo or small gang, like Rote, but some also like the large fleets. As such there's nothing wrong with fleet combat but people shouldn't whine if they find it boring because they joined the biggest fleet. Years ago we people enjoyed SOV fights just fine (to a certain extend, obviously). Nothing much has changed other than the size and number of the different factions.

FW in itself is an affront to the sandbox (localised arbitrary rules and game mechanics resulting in massive income silliness), I never liked it for that reason and thus never did it. It needs to be nerfed.


There's a few things CCP should do to change the emphasis on high sec and make low worthwhile.

- move lvl 4 to low, lvl 3 being highest in HS is fine and lvl 4 can be done in smaller more agile ships making it work just fine in low
- move lvl 5 to npc null
- move 4 mineral types that are used for every day production to low only and give each faction one of them. This will create a pull to low which will attract pvp and will result in hybrid groups of both pvp as miners, interaction, activity, pvp opportunities, market opportunities. This would also be an incentive for miners to try their luck in low and be rewarded for it


CCP would score massive bonus points if they'd divide HS into 4 quadrants all separated by a band of low sec systems with multiple entry points. That way trading and transporting actually becomes meaningful, more of a specialisation and the whole "us vs them" of the 4 factions becomes more prevalent. It would make low sec as a concept meaningful, It would also lower the pressure on Jita.


This would require thinking outside the box and showcase an amount of confidence and long term vision I so very much want to see from CCP.


You propose massive changes ! That usually results in tears, starting with me right here Cry

Please don't deprive me of highsec level 4 missions. Nerf their income to hell, but pretty please let me indulge in watching NPCs explode while they fail to break my tank. I know it's as eventful as watching a fireplace, but I do enjoy that sometimes .. for hours.

Then for FW:

There are 3 types of players doing it
- those who just do the missions for the income (the worst type imo. Can't really say they're doing FW ... not as I perceive FW)
- those who are heavily invested in attacking and defending systems.
- those who just do PvP all day long

It's the last 2 types that are actually FW players imo ... and you should try that, because that's where the fun is.

Overall I agree with you.
- there is 0 reason to mine in low-sec
- PI is marginally better than in high-sec but the possible set-backs through ship and cargo loss make it less interesting than 0.0
- Incursions ... are people doing them in low-sec ?
- trading is all high-sec routes and high-sec hubs
...

If actual mining, ratting, industry and trading in low-sec could get a boost, that would be awesome. Even FW mission would be ok if it hadn't become a farming activity where you only need to kill one ship with your stealth bomber to succeed the mission. Redesigning the missions would help.

edit: Gregor Parud for President.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3372 - 2016-01-02 18:03:14 UTC
Don't allow BS in lvl 3, problem solved :)
Solecist Project
#3373 - 2016-01-02 18:11:50 UTC
That is something I can get behind totally!

No BS for lvl3s, no T3s, nothing that makes them too easy.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#3374 - 2016-01-02 18:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Xelitras
CCP could make tons of money if they would release a standalone "Level 4 missions in a Raven" just for me.

I imagine that as follows:

You undock, no warping and no flying around needed. All you have to do is defend the station against wave after wave of incoming rats. Inbetween waves you redock to restock cruise missiles and drones or for emergency repairs with money that you get from clearing a stage.

Wow, I think I just pitched an idea for the next VR game EVE: Ravenstorm.
edit: scratch VR, make it for mobile platforms. Idea I feel strangely inspired ...

...

They could then follow up with the other races' and even pirate faction's Battleships. ... Machariel of doom Big smile

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3375 - 2016-01-02 19:19:36 UTC
Quote:

Forum rules

2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.



I have removed a post for violating the rules above.

ISD Fractal

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#3376 - 2016-01-02 19:24:04 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:



There's a few things CCP should do to change the emphasis on high sec and make low worthwhile.

- move lvl 4 to low, lvl 3 being highest in HS is fine and lvl 4 can be done in smaller more agile ships making it work just fine in low
- move lvl 5 to npc null
- move 4 mineral types that are used for every day production to low only and give each faction one of them. This will create a pull to low which will attract pvp and will result in hybrid groups of both pvp as miners, interaction, activity, pvp opportunities, market opportunities. This would also be an incentive for miners to try their luck in low and be rewarded for it


CCP would score massive bonus points if they'd divide HS into 4 quadrants all separated by a band of low sec systems with multiple entry points. That way trading and transporting actually becomes meaningful, more of a specialisation and the whole "us vs them" of the 4 factions becomes more prevalent. It would make low sec as a concept meaningful, It would also lower the pressure on Jita.


These ideas would have been awesome 10 years ago. Or even more.

These days there are new space themed games that would take those "PvEers" and "soloers" away. They would feel betrayed for taking away the few things left for them to do in hi sec.
I don't recall the exact dates, but back at the time CCP published some stats, those "useless guys" are enough to cause some serious damage to EvE if they keep getting hammered and give up.

Leave EvE in the medical support mode it is now, it's going to last longer at this point than if you upset historical features left and right.

Imo the only way that would be understood by everybody including those who hang here just by a thread, would be to finally get rid of sec status completely and refurbish content so it can be done without this heavy weight legacy. But this is not going to happen, it's too late to take these deep game design decisions now. Just leave EvE be and have it go ahead as much as it can.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#3377 - 2016-01-02 19:30:53 UTC
Basically EvE right now is between a rock and an hard place.

Time is not kind, those who don't adapt, die.

EvE / CCP could want to adapt and avoid dying, but their playerbase (I see the mindset right in this thread) refuses to change, refuses to adapt to the new ways of gaming.

That's why Valkyrie will exist: to get rid of the barricades that players erect in EvE at the very mention of change, at the very mention of getting to the modern times. They demand their 2003 game to forever stay frozen in time, but doing so one day it'll be over.
On the other side, if CCP strong handed EvE into the future, then those players could quit, causing EvE to die anyway.

So, CCP are in a lose / lose situation with EvE, that's why they are trying to put out new games so much, so to get unshackled and into the future.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#3378 - 2016-01-02 19:58:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:



There's a few things CCP should do to change the emphasis on high sec and make low worthwhile.

- move lvl 4 to low, lvl 3 being highest in HS is fine and lvl 4 can be done in smaller more agile ships making it work just fine in low
- move lvl 5 to npc null
- move 4 mineral types that are used for every day production to low only and give each faction one of them. This will create a pull to low which will attract pvp and will result in hybrid groups of both pvp as miners, interaction, activity, pvp opportunities, market opportunities. This would also be an incentive for miners to try their luck in low and be rewarded for it


CCP would score massive bonus points if they'd divide HS into 4 quadrants all separated by a band of low sec systems with multiple entry points. That way trading and transporting actually becomes meaningful, more of a specialisation and the whole "us vs them" of the 4 factions becomes more prevalent. It would make low sec as a concept meaningful, It would also lower the pressure on Jita.


These ideas would have been awesome 10 years ago. Or even more.

These days there are new space themed games that would take those "PvEers" and "soloers" away. They would feel betrayed for taking away the few things left for them to do in hi sec.
I don't recall the exact dates, but back at the time CCP published some stats, those "useless guys" are enough to cause some serious damage to EvE if they keep getting hammered and give up.


That's kinda true. If EVE had been made like that from a early stage, then it would never have grown as large as it was in its heyday, but also wouldn't face the current situation where there's a large chunk of the population who is not buying what CCP would like to sell.

25% of people just pay to get a MMO experience. Another 25% pay to do anyhting that doesn't involves PvP or leaving highsec. 12% pay to not even undock...

Each profile haves diferent length of tenure and retention rates. And IMO, CCP took a big chance with insufficent information when they put all the eggs in the PvP basket. I don't know if CCP's bet for PvP will succeed or fail. Frankly, it's difficult to judge wheter nullseccers are having a blast with microfights or really the big fights have been slaughtered and nothing is replacing them. CCP is pushing to replace 1,000 F1 monkeys boring to hell in 1 battle with 1,000 guys having a blast in 50 small battles. If they win, they will save their asses. If don't they're toast.

But that doesn't changes that 62% of players are giving their money for a subpar PvE/highsec/solo experience, and it's CCP who decided that those players would be left up of **** creek without a paddle unless they did certain things... like become F1 monkeys.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3379 - 2016-01-02 20:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:



There's a few things CCP should do to change the emphasis on high sec and make low worthwhile.

- move lvl 4 to low, lvl 3 being highest in HS is fine and lvl 4 can be done in smaller more agile ships making it work just fine in low
- move lvl 5 to npc null
- move 4 mineral types that are used for every day production to low only and give each faction one of them. This will create a pull to low which will attract pvp and will result in hybrid groups of both pvp as miners, interaction, activity, pvp opportunities, market opportunities. This would also be an incentive for miners to try their luck in low and be rewarded for it


CCP would score massive bonus points if they'd divide HS into 4 quadrants all separated by a band of low sec systems with multiple entry points. That way trading and transporting actually becomes meaningful, more of a specialisation and the whole "us vs them" of the 4 factions becomes more prevalent. It would make low sec as a concept meaningful, It would also lower the pressure on Jita.


These ideas would have been awesome 10 years ago. Or even more.

These days there are new space themed games that would take those "PvEers" and "soloers" away. They would feel betrayed for taking away the few things left for them to do in hi sec.


No you just want to keep it this way.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3380 - 2016-01-02 20:10:11 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Basically EvE right now is between a rock and an hard place.

Time is not kind, those who don't adapt, die.

EvE / CCP could want to adapt and avoid dying, but their playerbase (I see the mindset right in this thread) refuses to change, refuses to adapt to the new ways of gaming.

That's why Valkyrie will exist: to get rid of the barricades that players erect in EvE at the very mention of change, at the very mention of getting to the modern times. They demand their 2003 game to forever stay frozen in time, but doing so one day it'll be over.
On the other side, if CCP strong handed EvE into the future, then those players could quit, causing EvE to die anyway.

So, CCP are in a lose / lose situation with EvE, that's why they are trying to put out new games so much, so to get unshackled and into the future.


That's a whole lot of doom saying.