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Feedback on Tutorials for new players

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Crompton Aberforth
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-04 02:04:07 UTC
After holding out for a loooong time, I have finally succumbed and agreed to sign up for a trial period of Eve. It is day three for me and I am wading through the tuturials. I continually have hair-pulling moments when I am stuck with no idea of where to go next. Luckily I have a committed assistant at my beck and call to help me through the muddied waters. I'm sure a lot of others are not so fortunate, so I thought I would share some of my frustrations as I go along, in the hope the powers that be can take pity and improve the support offered. Alternatively, others might want to comment on this thread about their own issues and how they overcame them.

Career Advancement Tutorials - the blurb suggests you can do these in any order you like. I believed them and headed straight to those offered by Antongase Pandon (Business). All was well until he sent me on a mining mission without any mining equipment or know-how. The support tuturial offered by Aura related to the second part of the mission which was to refine some Veldspar, and this part was hunky dory. Solution: I headed off to the market and purchased a Miner 1, which I then had to fit to my ship before heading back to the mining site to complete the task.

Career Advancement Tutorials - Today I was working on a misson for Potillot Mumnier (Exploration). Tutorial help is offered by Rulie Isoryn who briefly mentioned that pirates call part of the gates a 'room' but I didn't understand what she meant. The instructions told me to head to the third room, but that meant nothing to me, so I lost more hair (lol). Solution: Committed Assistant explained the 'rooms' are the locations as you move through the gates. You warp to room one, 'activate the gate' to get through the gate into room two, and then activate the next gate to get into room three (and so on). To get to the third room, I had to go through two gates. (Clear as mud!)

I'll keep you posted on anything else that yanks my chain.

Do you play EVE like a girl ...because um... you ARE a girl?

Do you know about the WGoE (Women Gamers of EVE) chat channel?

For access information visit the public chat room 'Women Gamers public'.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2 - 2012-01-04 02:22:03 UTC
It is worth noting that pursuing the Industry chain results in the new pilot receiving a cornucopia of mining lasers and mining frigates.

I wonder if it might be possible to move the granting of all items to Aura tutorials, rather than having them as part of these mission sequences? Thus when the pilot heads to a different region to run through the career advancement missions, they won't end up receiving yet more copies of Survey, Salvaging, Astrometrics, Cybernetics, ad nauseum.

So rather than the exploration training agent providing the astrometrics book, the agent would be marked as requiring astrometrics skill, at which point Aura could provide the skill book, along with the existing tutorial which points to the Probing and Exploration wiki pages. The same situation would apply to the industry agent: a mission would be marked as requiring mining, so Aura can jump in to provide a tutorial and a civilian miner if the pilot hasn't received that tutorial already.

The inverse of this would be missions which require civilian modules, e.g.: Magnetometric Site Scanning which requires a salvager and an analyser. Civilian versions of these items are provided by Aura at present, and that tutorial will never repeat. It might be worth adding the civilian salvager and analyser to the mission itself as "award on acceptance" items.

And I still can't find the Aura tutorial or agent mission which provides the Industry skill which is required to successfully complete the Industry and Business story lines. Way back in time we didn't have the career advancement funnel, players would learn about the career agents through word of mouth and research: rookies were not shuffled directly into these training missions.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Crompton Aberforth
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-01-04 04:20:51 UTC
Career Advancement Tutorials - Exploration: Aura teaches you to use the scanner to locate signatures and explains how you can change your settings to 'Ignore all other results'. This is really helpful as the original list can be quite lengthy. What Aura doesn't tell you is how to get the original list up again. I needed this because I stupidly clicked on the wrong type of signature for my rookie mission. Solution: To the left of the 'Scan Result Filter' heading there is a little lined box icon. Simply click on the box and select 'Clear all ignored results'. Clue for next time: don't let myself get distracted.

Do you play EVE like a girl ...because um... you ARE a girl?

Do you know about the WGoE (Women Gamers of EVE) chat channel?

For access information visit the public chat room 'Women Gamers public'.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#4 - 2012-01-04 05:10:46 UTC
I think things would be awesome if they could put in "mini-IGBs" that did lil youtube videos that could walk you through these things

The Drake is a Lie
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#5 - 2012-01-04 12:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Safari doesn't need Flash to play YouTube, but then Moondoggie is rendering into a plane in a composited 3D environment. Playing back H.264 might not be as easy for Moondoggie as it was for Safari.

There are plenty of references linked through the Aura tutorials, it is just a matter of convincing rookies to follow the links and read a dozen pages of Wiki for every one of the 10 missions in each chain :)

Of course this doesn't address the issue of material that is simply missing :)

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Crompton Aberforth
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-06 01:23:17 UTC
Career Advancement Tutorials - Military. In the second mission Aura pops up to give some help. Aura mentions that so far I have been using a gun that didn't need ammunition. This isn't accurate as I have been using the Light Electron Blaster I and needed to buy Antimatter Charge S for it. Solution: over to the Devs on this one.....

Do you play EVE like a girl ...because um... you ARE a girl?

Do you know about the WGoE (Women Gamers of EVE) chat channel?

For access information visit the public chat room 'Women Gamers public'.
Crompton Aberforth
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-06 01:49:07 UTC
Career Advancement Tutorials - Military. Mission 3 out of 10 in 'Cash flow for Capsuleers' has me a little perplexed. After accepting the mission, Aura popped up to tell me to check whether I have an agent-gifted Stasis Webifier and if not go and buy one. I haven't been given one so went to the market and looked it up. The prerequisites for using this item is 'Propulsion Jamming' skill, which I don't have yet. Guess what the reward for this mission is? Yep.... the Agent (Berlimaute Remintgarnes)is offering me the 'Propulsion Jamming' skill at the end of my mission.
Solution: go and buy the skill and train it up so I can run the mission, then later on sell the one the agent provides to me.


Do you play EVE like a girl ...because um... you ARE a girl?

Do you know about the WGoE (Women Gamers of EVE) chat channel?

For access information visit the public chat room 'Women Gamers public'.
Crompton Aberforth
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-06 12:30:17 UTC
Career Advancement Tutorials - Military. Mission 7 out of 10 in 'Cash Flow for Capsuleers' had me struggling, and I am now a frustrated wreck of a trainee. I was still flying a Navitas with 75 mm Gatling Rail using Antimatter Charge S, a Civilian Afterburner (Civilian was necessary as I don't have any skills for anything else yet) and the Small Armour Repairer provided as part of the mission.
Warping into the misson deadspace, I got inundated with 'baddies' and proceeded to try and pick them off one by one. Unfortunately due to the hits I was taking (and the subsequent pulsing of the repairer), my capacitor kept exhausting before I could pick more than one of my targets off, so I had to warp keep warping out while my capacitor recharged. Twice I had to go home for repairs. Originally I warped back to my Captain's Quarter but thought there might be a better/quicker option than this.
Solution 1: I swapped my Navitas to a ship in my hangar with a bigger capacitor.
Solution 2: I set a co-ordinate for a distance about 1 million kilometres away from the misson deadspace and then warped back to there each time while I licked my wounds.

I not only got through the mission, but amazingly I still earned the Agent's time bonus. Yay!

Do you play EVE like a girl ...because um... you ARE a girl?

Do you know about the WGoE (Women Gamers of EVE) chat channel?

For access information visit the public chat room 'Women Gamers public'.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#9 - 2012-01-06 14:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Crompton Aberforth wrote:
Career Advancement Tutorials - Military. Mission 7 out of 10 in 'Cash Flow for Capsuleers' had me struggling, and I am now a frustrated wreck of a trainee. I was still flying a Navitas with 75 mm Gatling Rail using Antimatter Charge S, a Civilian Afterburner (Civilian was necessary as I don't have any skills for anything else yet) and the Small Armour Repairer provided as part of the mission.
Warping into the misson deadspace, I got inundated with 'baddies' and proceeded to try and pick them off one by one. Unfortunately due to the hits I was taking (and the subsequent pulsing of the repairer), my capacitor kept exhausting before I could pick more than one of my targets off, so I had to warp keep warping out while my capacitor recharged. Twice I had to go home for repairs. Originally I warped back to my Captain's Quarter but thought there might be a better/quicker option than this.
Solution 1: I swapped my Navitas to a ship in my hangar with a bigger capacitor.
Solution 2: I set a co-ordinate for a distance about 1 million kilometres away from the misson deadspace and then warped back to there each time while I licked my wounds.

I not only got through the mission, but amazingly I still earned the Agent's time bonus. Yay!



1. Grats on finishing the mission Smile
2. Bolded the part where you made the mistake. (Though, yes, swapping ships later was a good plan).

Navitas is the mining frigate, and as such isn't really "good" for combat. Assuming you have the skills, the Tristan will be your best choice for combat. If you don't have the skills for the Tristan, the Atron or Incursus are also good combat-oriented boats.

Atron & Incursus --> Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% Small Hybrid Turret damage per skill level. (means you hit a little farther and harder for every level of "Gallente Frigate")

The Atron is faster with less overall HP, the Incursus is slower with a little more HP

Tristan --> Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking speed per skill level. (means you hit harder, and can more accurately track fast-moving targets for every level of "Gallente Frigate").

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-01-07 02:33:07 UTC
Crompton Aberforth wrote:
Career Advancement Tutorials - the blurb suggests you can do these in any order you like. I believed them and headed straight to those offered by Antongase Pandon (Business). All was well until he sent me on a mining mission without any mining equipment or know-how. The support tuturial offered by Aura related to the second part of the mission which was to refine some Veldspar, and this part was hunky dory. Solution: I headed off to the market and purchased a Miner 1, which I then had to fit to my ship before heading back to the mining site to complete the task.

No mining equipment? You could have done that mission in your rookie ship with its ready-fitted Civilian Miner.

Crompton Aberforth wrote:
Career Advancement Tutorials - Military. In the second mission Aura pops up to give some help. Aura mentions that so far I have been using a gun that didn't need ammunition. This isn't accurate as I have been using the Light Electron Blaster I and needed to buy Antimatter Charge S for it. Solution: over to the Devs on this one.....

All rookie ships used to come with a civilian gun which needed no ammo – any replacements you receive will still be fitted that way.

Crompton Aberforth wrote:
Career Advancement Tutorials - Military. Mission 7 out of 10 in 'Cash Flow for Capsuleers' had me struggling, and I am now a frustrated wreck of a trainee. I was still flying a Navitas with 75 mm Gatling Rail using Antimatter Charge S, a Civilian Afterburner (Civilian was necessary as I don't have any skills for anything else yet) and the Small Armour Repairer provided as part of the mission.
Warping into the misson deadspace, I got inundated with 'baddies' and proceeded to try and pick them off one by one. Unfortunately due to the hits I was taking (and the subsequent pulsing of the repairer), my capacitor kept exhausting before I could pick more than one of my targets off, so I had to warp keep warping out while my capacitor recharged. Twice I had to go home for repairs. Originally I warped back to my Captain's Quarter but thought there might be a better/quicker option than this.
Solution 1: I swapped my Navitas to a ship in my hangar with a bigger capacitor.
Solution 2: I set a co-ordinate for a distance about 1 million kilometres away from the misson deadspace and then warped back to there each time while I licked my wounds.

I not only got through the mission, but amazingly I still earned the Agent's time bonus. Yay!

The agent has good reason to provide a fast combat frigate (Atron) in Mission 2! Blink
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#11 - 2012-01-07 11:48:25 UTC
Ettu Brute II wrote:
No mining equipment? You could have done that mission in your rookie ship with its ready-fitted Civilian Miner.


The new player experience has changed. They start in their pod, in station. They then fly into space in their pod, warp to a deadspace pocket and board a pre-assembled rookie ship that has no fittings.

A rookie who is genuinely new to the game will not know about repackaging and reassembling their rookie ship to get a free civilian miner, nor will they know about docking at any station with no available ships in their pod in order to be given a new free rookie ship with civilian miner and civilian small racial weapon.

Ettu Brute II wrote:
The agent has good reason to provide a fast combat frigate (Atron) in Mission 2! Blink


Indeed!

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mahindra
Aquilonia Enterprises
#12 - 2012-01-07 19:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mahindra
I really dont know what you are complaining about. When I started in EVE a few years ago the tutorials were really miserable and you really had to earn or buy all your ships an items as well as the necessary skills.
Three days ago I started with a new trial-account just for fun and I was surprised that on the 3rd day I had finished "Cash for Capsuleers" and a proud sum of almost 3 mill ISK in my wallet. Together with a fitted Tormentor (that I can use for mining) an Sigil Industrial-ship and a fitted Punisher plus a great bundle of skills and items. The only ship I had to buy was a Magnate, I got as a replacement for my mining-Tormentor because of the two drones that can protect me when I'm mining. Most of the levels in "Cash for Capsuleers" I made with the Tormentor equipped with two lasers and a drone.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-01-07 23:54:18 UTC
I remember when I first started, the tutorial basically consisted of "This is your ship, this is your gun. This is an NPC, and it's shooting at you. Good luck."

But yeah, from what I hear the Incarna tutorials are quite half-assed. Pretty much half of the questions in Rookie Help nowadays are asking for help on the tutorial missions.
gfldex
#14 - 2012-01-08 01:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: gfldex
Mahindra wrote:
a proud sum of almost 3 mill ISK in my wallet.


And all that in a couple of hours. The amount of ISK new players can make these days is outright staggering. Esp. if you take all the PLEXes into account that the ISD lobbying get noobs to buy. All it gets them are ships they nowhere near have the skill to pilot. Most players are in a BC long before they have the skills to fly a frig.

I made a miner ganking noob alt with one of them fancy 60 day trial. In the last week I have killed Dagan more then a dozen times. Most of the time I asked the helpneeding nooblin for his ships fitting. I'm out of eye bleach now. It's indeed very much important to teach any noob how to use probes. They wont be able to scan any real site for at least a month because they lack the skills and they would not be able to finish the site with their failfits - but hey, why would they need to know how to fit a ship?

And you can't even link them to the fitting guide in the wiki. It's just a very long list of whats where it would need whys. The whole thing is written by Cpt. Obvious who has never played EVE. Even after reading it a few times in a row you will still don't know how to fit a Punisher.

I'm quite sure I just missed to spot where Aura tells new players that the Recruitment tab in the Corporation is not the place where they can recruit players. Why would a new player want to join a player corp anyways?

There are very good reason why so few players stick with EVE - and it's not related to $15.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2012-01-09 11:53:40 UTC
Thank you very much for the feedback! I've passed it along to the developers working on the new player experience.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-01-09 12:47:17 UTC
I had a large post filled with more feedback and advise based on my experience helping two brand new players, that took me some 10 minutes to write, but your stupid forums deleted my post.
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-01-09 18:30:33 UTC
The Snowman wrote:
I had a large post filled with more feedback and advise based on my experience helping two brand new players, that took me some 10 minutes to write, but your stupid forums deleted my post.



Was it on the new forums or old forums? if it was on the old forums before they launched the new ones, it may still be found and read. you just have to search the actual eve site, and not the gate.eveonline site.

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-01-10 18:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ettu Brute II
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:
No mining equipment? You could have done that mission in your rookie ship with its ready-fitted Civilian Miner.


The new player experience has changed. They start in their pod, in station. They then fly into space in their pod, warp to a deadspace pocket and board a pre-assembled rookie ship that has no fittings.

A rookie who is genuinely new to the game will not know about repackaging and reassembling their rookie ship to get a free civilian miner, nor will they know about docking at any station with no available ships in their pod in order to be given a new free rookie ship with civilian miner and civilian small racial weapon.

Apologies - my error.

I started by having to collect my rookie ship in space (only 5 weeks in game) and chose Balancing the Books as my first tutorial but I'm sure I didn't buy a miner for Mission 3. On the other hand, I already knew the repackage/re-assemble trick, so I probably got my civilian miner that way.

Mara Rinn wrote:
And I still can't find the Aura tutorial or agent mission which provides the Industry skill which is required to successfully complete the Industry and Business story lines.

Me too - I don't think there is one. I've done the tutorials three times now and I haven't found it either.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#19 - 2012-01-10 21:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Back in the days (4 years ago) you started in a rookie ship in middle of space, I had 0 problems understanding tutorials back then except that I didn't realise how acceleration gates worked ...
My brother was not so lucky he spent 2 hours trying to find out what he was supposed to do get to the next phase in mission.

Newbs these days have it so easy. :P

Oh yeah that station in newbie mission that took literally hours to kill with n00b ship and a civilian gun oh joy.
Considering POS bashes I'm doing in null these days that was just a hint for things to come ...
CCP Legion
#20 - 2012-01-11 14:05:12 UTC
This is great feedback, thank you.

We are fully aware that the New Player Experience lacks in a 'few' areas. I am part of the new team that was assembled to tackle this and we will be asking for feedback and ideas from the community in the near future, possible in the form of a dev blog :)

@CCP_Legion | Producer
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