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An education in high sec ganking from Twitch - Thank you Jason Kusion

Author
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2015-12-31 03:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
It's not any harder to keep your freighter safe than it is to gank one. I'd even argue it's easier to keep your freighter safe than to gank one.

No kidding. Even with the fit button I still spend hours fitting ships if I intend to do a big set of ganks. I couldn't imagine how much time people are spending fitting gank ships for code.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#22 - 2015-12-31 03:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Suicide ganking is a nice risk free activity for the simple minded to keep themselves occupied.

At the same time ISK is so easy to acquire and piles up so fast that practically any ship short of personally paid for capitals are completely disposable. I could lose a freighter a day for months before I felt the need to stop. And I'm not even near the level of ISK that most have access to.

At the end of the day, it's just one big 'MEH' from me. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

Mr Epeen Cool
Paranoid Loyd
#23 - 2015-12-31 03:49:21 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
It's not any harder to keep your freighter safe than it is to gank one. I'd even argue it's easier to keep your freighter safe than to gank one.

No kidding. Even with the fit button I still spend hours fitting ships if I intend to do a big set of ganks. I couldn't imagine how much time people are spending fitting gank ships for code.

Not to mention the 10-20 accounts required compared to the 2-3 accounts required.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#24 - 2015-12-31 03:58:26 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
It's not any harder to keep your freighter safe than it is to gank one. I'd even argue it's easier to keep your freighter safe than to gank one.

No kidding. Even with the fit button I still spend hours fitting ships if I intend to do a big set of ganks. I couldn't imagine how much time people are spending fitting gank ships for code.

Not to mention the 10-20 accounts required compared to the 2-3 accounts required.


Your sig is more appropriate, Paranoid Lord-San.

I've been web slinging my freighter around for years . Ditto the jump freighter (plus 2 more toons logged in as emergency cynos in low sec along the amarr/jita route.

As with EVERYTHING ELSE in this game, getting ccp to nerf people you don't like (as 'carebears have done for years) only Obi-Wans the people they wanted to nerf, ie the gankers just adapted and got stronger/smarter. Meanwhile, those of us who figured out te right way (learn the mechanics, become self sufficient or have reliable friends, don't be an easy target etc) are moving along unmolested by the 'bad guys' same as ever.

I wonder how many times people have to do a stupid thing (like appealing to CCP for help rather than just manning up and figuring it out for themselves) before they realize it's a stupid thing and stop doing it?

The above is a rhetorical question, I know from living life and having a job where I have to respond to the aftermath of people being dumb that stupid has no cure.
Paranoid Loyd
#25 - 2015-12-31 04:02:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Your sig is more appropriate, Paranoid Lord-San.
Yeah they really need to fix the prospect. Blink

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-12-31 04:23:57 UTC
Brokeback Tim wrote:
So I'm watching Twitch and Jason Kusion 12 box and annihilate freighter after Orca and freighter. Before I quit 5 years ago, I ganked a few freighters myself, so I'm not against it.

I'm just impressed with how well done it is now by him, CODE, and friends. It's definitely down to a science now.

The only real question I'd have is, lore wise, why do the Empires allow such ganking to be so....easy? You'd think the flags / timers would've been longer at this point of the game for attacks in high sec.

I'll have to think on this.



It's not easy, they just make it look easy. I will say the same thing in response to this as anyone else that calls ganking easy/low-skill: if it's so easy, you'll be able to demonstrate it as well without a problem.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Pix Severus
Empty You
#27 - 2015-12-31 04:47:28 UTC
Recently, while grinding some ISK on my mission alt, I have been targeted by a group of gankers looking for a blingy battleship to kill. Simply by identifying those gankers (adding anyone who turns flashy in local to red) along with casual usage of dscan, I have been able to avoid all of their attempts so far. It's so easy, and all it requires is to be somewhat alert.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Solecist Project
#28 - 2015-12-31 07:38:58 UTC
Another one of these covert agenda threads.
Made by a faceless alt.

Can't we just collectively stop paying attention to them?
One bullshit thread gets closed and the next one comes up ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Sharise Dragonstar
Big Strong
#29 - 2015-12-31 10:54:12 UTC
There is no science or any real intelligence behind the current wave of high sec ganking. The gankers are not bothered about what ships they lose nor are they really bothered about the value of the ship they kill. What they want is for the victim to rant in local so they can laugh at them and "harvest tears". The punishment is you lose status and your ship. Punishment is only a punishment if it prevents further occurrences, otherwise it becomes a cost. Punishments should be increased every time it occurs with each punishment being more severe than the last. There will come a time when the punishment stops the individual from breaking rules in high sec. Basically of an in place punishment does not stop the crime it needs to be increased. High sec rules and laws are made by npc factions but in null it's up to pc's to punish any transgressors.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2015-12-31 11:00:27 UTC
Gamewise with ccp, they don't do anything as this game is a sandbox... So today ganking is a very popular trend, but tomorrow something else will take its place. (Not that I am saying no one will gank ever again)
Voxinian
#31 - 2015-12-31 12:21:52 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:


I would agree with this. If you aren't making at least 500m ISK per day running level 4 missions in highsec, you are doing something wrong. ]

*Depending on how much time you have to actually play the game, of course.
]


You are basically saying, to play EVE (competitively) well you need to have no life and play EVE all day and every day. I don't make 500mil a day I can tell ya.. unless I have luck with loot drops.
Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2015-12-31 12:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarrchecko
Brokeback Tim wrote:
Really good responses. So the main problem, if there is one, is there is no incentive for other players to stop it?


Not quite.

The people who are resourceful enough to (maybe) be able to "stop it" are the people who are resourceful enough to not be much/at all affected by ganking in the first place. Which means that it actually would be better for them to encourage ganking so that it negatively impacts their competitors even more than it would be for them to try to stop ganking... unless they are people who buy into the "ganking drives away new players" thing.
Memphis Baas
#33 - 2015-12-31 12:51:16 UTC
This thread is an advertisement for CODE / ganking, with a few people pointlessly trying to argue a counter-point "rationally."
Pix Severus
Empty You
#34 - 2015-12-31 12:58:33 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:


I would agree with this. If you aren't making at least 500m ISK per day running level 4 missions in highsec, you are doing something wrong. ]

*Depending on how much time you have to actually play the game, of course.
]


You are basically saying, to play EVE (competitively) well you need to have no life and play EVE all day and every day. I don't make 500mil a day I can tell ya.. unless I have luck with loot drops.


You are doing the burner missions too, right? If you have a few hours free after work in the evening, I see no reason why you couldn't hit those numbers.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#35 - 2015-12-31 13:29:54 UTC
Main trouble is not that you can't do anything. The problem is that victims don't do anything.
I looked at white knighting more than once. All the time it was ignorance what killed people.
Hell, I've seen one very funny Orca gank. It ultimately failed, with Orca leaving chewie wrecks at whole 30% structure. You know, DCII and bulkheads happened.

Why am I telling you this? Because it's a very good example how efforts of one man of protecting himself screwed up long waiting and coordination, as well as considerable ammount of ships and, most important, self-respect of the whole fleet. They trashed Orca pilot for half of the hour, lol. I think Orca instantly paid off it's price in the best currency — fun.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-12-31 15:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Shi
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Brokeback Tim wrote:

You're ignoring my main point, though, in that it's risk-free for the ganker. The balance is all out of whack in that regard.


That's because it's not much of a point. They're risking their ships (guaranteeing their destruction, in fact). The fact that they've min/maxxed that to a pretty low cost is not as interesting as you would like to pretend.

Smart haulers optimize similarly to limit their risk. You're seeing a bunch of stupid people get blown up and are trying to make that about something other than the stupid risk the victims failed to plan for.



The fact that the ships are extremely cheap and easy to get has removed this as a risk. The ships are now an acceptable loss because its extremely easy to just buy more due to how easy it is to make isk.

And due to how easy it is to fund this activity there is nothing other players can do to stop it. All they can do is delay the inevitable because no matter how many ships of theirs you destroy they just buy more and come back.

The is no down side to hi-sec ganking other than the time it takes to buy more ships and refit (assuming they don't have ships in place already), and then wait for another target.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-12-31 15:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Pix Severus wrote:
Voxinian wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:


I would agree with this. If you aren't making at least 500m ISK per day running level 4 missions in highsec, you are doing something wrong. ]

*Depending on how much time you have to actually play the game, of course.
]


You are basically saying, to play EVE (competitively) well you need to have no life and play EVE all day and every day. I don't make 500mil a day I can tell ya.. unless I have luck with loot drops.


You are doing the burner missions too, right? If you have a few hours free after work in the evening, I see no reason why you couldn't hit those numbers.

Hitting those numbers requires several bling ships to cover all burner possibilities and a bling ship for regular 4s. Your choice in ships for the regular level 4 mission side of thing is limited by the requirement for high dps and speed (prop mod speed, warp speed, align speed). Blitzing with bling is the only way to make that kind of isk in 3 hours assuming you're including everything in that time quote and not just starting the timer once you're doing the first mission while excluding all the time you're doing maintenance related stuff which doesn't directly pay (setup/resupply/lp conversion stuff/etc). Blitzing limits the missions you can run too so you need to have Vs in all social related skills (standing/lp pay/ isk pay/etc). Bling clones are required too which further exposes you. There's a good amount of time needed to get a character up to the point where it can do such things. T2 weapons and such are required. The isk required to be invested in ships also presents a challenge for casuals starting up.

So what I'm saying is most people cannot make that kind of isk running 4s and data released by CCP confirms that.

Also those numbers rely heavily on LP values that are overpriced currently and have been falling in value for a while. If more people engaged in that activity then the LP values would plummet even faster.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#38 - 2015-12-31 15:32:43 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:

Hitting those numbers requires several bling ships to cover all burner possibilities and a bling ship for regular 4s.

Err, what? I'm pretty sured someone will feed you with polarized Mordus cancer and fistful of Machariels.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#39 - 2015-12-31 15:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Crumplecorn
Mr Epeen wrote:
Suicide ganking is a nice risk free activity for the simple minded to keep themselves occupied.
That's mining you're thinking of.

Kinete Jenius wrote:
So what I'm saying is most people cannot make that kind of isk running 4s and data released by CCP confirms that.
It's almost like people talking about how great they are on the internet exaggerate or something.

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Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-12-31 15:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Leila Meurtrier wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:

Hitting those numbers requires several bling ships to cover all burner possibilities and a bling ship for regular 4s.

Err, what? I'm pretty sured someone will feed you with polarized Mordus cancer and fistful of Machariels.

You're not doing burners in a Machariel. Burners are where the real isk is due to the inflated LP values.

With the recent nerfs to popular burner ships I'm not sure you can rely on only a couple to complete all burners anymore.


Crumplecorn wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Suicide ganking is a nice risk free activity for the simple minded to keep themselves occupied.
That's mining you're thinking of.

Kinete Jenius wrote:
So what I'm saying is most people cannot make that kind of isk running 4s and data released by CCP confirms that.
It's almost like people talking about how great they are on the internet exaggerate or something.
Very true. There's a thread in the missions subforum where people are discussing how they make +200m an hour doing level 4s. There are people claiming up to over 300m an hour but basically no one has actually posted any logs proving they can do it. Just a bunch of epenor swinging with no proof to backup the claims. Theory is nice and all but I like seeing proof to backup numbers in this game.
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