Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We need an agressor structure. It needs to have a timer. The defenders have the option to come out and put the agressor structure in RFO. The agressor gets to set the timer to come out of RFO at the time of his choosing when he declares the war (so it can be set for peak time for the agressing party - no off peak issues for the agressor). The structure has to be difficult to put into RFO and it has to be difficult to destroy. 3 dudes in oracles should not be able to dunk it in an hour.

The result: If the agresees get their poop together they can force the war to end early, but only through mighty, epic and heroic combat in 2 stages. The first at a timing of their choosing (to RFO the structure) and the second at a time picked by the agressor (by setting the time for the structure to come out of RFO).

Benefits:

1. True pvp is enabled (but not forced) around the structure where combat can take place free of docking rings and gates where commitment to the conflict is required of both sides.
2. The agressee is not required to address or interact with the structure. They can run, hid, dock or if they desire get some pvp out in the open where ships can be lost, glory can be had and so on.
3. Both sides of the war dec have actual assets in space that may or may not be defended. (In the case where the agressor initiates a war dec against a corp w/ no in space assets... well, their choice to do so)
4. This structure will be a content beacon drawing those who actually want to pvp (not player farm) to an open area free of timers and all that other cumbersome stuff known as 'mechanics'. Both sides will still have the option to stay in the docking rings if they so choose.
5. This would add an additional option for the conduct of pvp in HS. It would move wardecs a bit away from player farming and a bit towards pvp. (For this discussion pvp is where 2 sides BOTH interested in blowing the other guys up meet and explodes ships and player farming is where one side ganks folks as they undock with non hostile intentions - there is also a lot of gray stuff between these 2 extremes - we all know deep in our own little black hearts where we are on the spectrum)

Drawbacks:

1. There are a good number of HS agressors that are like totally afraid of the space between gates and stations where you actually need to commit to a fight and risk losing a ship.
2. There are a good number of HS agressors that aren't interested in pvp, they just want to farm players in HS.
3. There are some really vocal player farmers that rally against any suggestion that would move HS war decs toward pvp and away from player farming.

Question: Why are certain HS war deccing groups so against (dare I say afraid of?) having a content beacon planted firmly in space that declares to all the agressees "Come, come if you dare, try to defeat me"? (personally I would be inclined to clown the agressees by putting it in RFO myself w/ an alt corp to make it extra vulnerable to draw them to it - bait structure would be my term for it)

Giggle - you're scared to pvp off a station.

The reason corps currently have no value is in part because of the current war dec system. I'll give you an example (made up example - let's not get all covered in ouchy feelings here):

Your risk averse docking ring hero garbage playstyle of choice offends me deeply. When you claim what you do is PVP I get even more deeply offended. As we are both in corps and as you live in HS I have the option to wardec you. This act should have meaning. It should be a way for me and my pvp corp to cut your risk averse player farming corp from the CONCORD protected herd and do a happy dance all over your smoking corpses. BUT, ALAS the current borked mechanics allow you not only to hide in docking range, but you can also invite several 100 of your closest friends into the conflict. It's no longer me and you corp to corp (feel free to insert man to man) - it's me against a couple hundred dudes. The current mechanics make it too easy for you to turn a meaningful conflict between 2 player entities into a 700 man circus where 650 of the clowns don't give a ratsassamatass about any reasoning behind the war dec.

Corps are somewhat meaningless (in HS) because of the assist mechanic. 1 flag can no longer wage war agains another. It's a big meaningless mess. YOUR coveted and protected garbage mechanics are creating the problem you are citing. Either you can see that and are chuckling behind your faceless keyboard or you can't. Your understanding of the quandry isn't necessary for it to exist.

The punch line: My corp can't war dec your corp and pound the risk aversion out of you because of the assist mechanic. You have the easy option to spiral it meaninglessly out of control. This is your fault and your are defending it vigorously.

They would still allow aggression, only then they'd allow the defender to be aggressive.

I guess will have to agree to disagree on this, but ultimately it wouldn't be up to us anyway.

At least we can agree that orientation around a structure is a good route to take.

With no sov, no moon materials to fight over, free moons everywhere in high sec to anchor a POS at and the Citadels coming soon that will likely render the whole moon issues irrelevant and a few dozen others I will leave out to save space what does that leave us in high sec to declare and fight a war over? POS but in reality they are so cheap that the best option is to simply offline it for the duration and go play on alts, even if they do blow the damned thing up you can easily earn enough in the week to buy several more to replace it, so that leaves us with the POCO. I do not see those exploding very often and I suspect that the corps that own them are quite capable and quite willing to curb stomp anyone idiotic enough to try.

After 25 pages here is what we have.
Players like Joe Risalo, Daichi Yamoto, Serendipity Lost and myself would like to see the system changed to be more in line with a real life historical view of war where there are goals for both sides and to that end some form of flag or structure seems to be the best option for high sec.
On the other side there are those like Kaarous that want to preserve the current "player farming" mechanic as Serendipity calls it and for their own reasons they are not willing to allow any changes.

I know it will never happen and I am OK with that, but personally I would like to see all forms of player against player combat style aggression either removed from high sec, or have them all reclassified as ganking with the appropriate Concord penalties in full force. It would be interesting to see how many of the elite high sec PvP players actually make the transition and how many quit because.

So wait...
The idea here is that the aggressor pays 100 mil to declare war.
The defender then pay 1 billion in order to.... Be in the war???

Then, the two entities battle over the structures..
If the defender wins, the war ends and the aggressor get the money...
If the aggressor wins, the war continues and they get the money?

Lolololol
Man, and you're trying to condemn our sense of game balance, lol.


Edit.. Ahh, now it makes sense... Had to read it like 5 time because it was poorly written.

If the aggressor wins, they get the money and the war ends.. And no mention on for how long, so they can likely farm this on a day to day basis.
There was also no mention on what the defender wins, what their other options are, nor anything considerations to any other aspects of balance.

I stand by by previous statement of lolololololol

Incorrect. You might want to actually pay some attention.

Misread your suggestion as it was a little (well a lot) poorly presented.
I edited my original comment on that... Have a look at it.

Lol.. Nice ploy.

You suggested a structure mechanic, despite having hated he idea of structure mechanics, then went on to put all the risks in the defender's hands, because they want to fight back...

YouR arguments are so far out of whack that it's no surprise you can't keep your narrative straight.

lol.... Dang...

I'm not even sure where we're at anymore, lol.