These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Sojourn: The Federation

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#141 - 2015-12-27 21:58:38 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Caldari Prime through Gallentean eyes was a place with a fascinating indigenous flora and fauna, architecture and culture (and kind of chilly weather) and history-- lots and lots of history. It's a place where Caldari and Gallente live side by side, where even Gallentean-administrated areas demonstrate a respectful regard for their Caldari neighbors. The focus is on the now, but the past is to be treated respectfully.

Ms. Jenneth,

I am afraid that gallentean was lying to you as well. You see, if they would respect that "fascinating architecture", they wouldn't have been destroying that.

I understand that you had an identity loss and please excuse me for bringing out this, but let me transcribe you the events that have unfolded seven years ago, in not so distant YC110 just before Caldari Prime was liberated by Tibus Heth from gallente occupants.

I wasn't the witness of these events myself, as I have already... died... and was a capsule pilot. But I still had access to all the information, including news from both Gallente Federation and Caldari State. Back then I have been enjoying availability of information from all the sources, unlike today, when I simply filter out all the gallente cr.. lies.

In the news feeds from both Gallente Federation and Caldari State, depicting the situation on Caldari Prime there were clearly seen fires on Caldari archaeological ruins and defacing of Caldari monuments, done by gallente hands. Calls to "exterminate all Caldari" on the Caldari Prime were looking especially appalling. And exactly these events with following Gallente police actions against protesting Caldari were the actual casus belli for Tibus Heth to liberate our home (not Federal Navy's terror act, performed by Adm. Noir, as less informed ones used to claim).

Ma'am, thus I honestly believe that this gallente had absolutely no interest in Caldari architecture or culture except his desire to destroy it.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#142 - 2015-12-28 09:45:13 UTC
That is just rude and disingenuous.
Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
#143 - 2015-12-28 13:52:40 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Because the Federation's officially agnostic about both politics and religion, nobody at all has the privilege of enforcing their own ideas on other people. There's no such thing as an illegal state of mind in the Federation. You can be for whatever you like; you can worship whatever you like; you can wish agonizing death on people to your heart's content. You can sympathize with the Sani or the Angels or the Guristas or the U-Nats (though the Templis might be pushing it). It doesn't really matter how awful your ideas are unless you go and try to do something about it.

Yes, you can sympathize Sani in the Federation. Even such pirates as Angels or Guristas. Even you can sympathize U-Nats...

But you can't sympathize Caldari. Otherwise, you will in the best case lose your job, and in the worst case you will just disappear. Hell, you don't even have to sympathize them, it's just enough for someone to be convinced enough you sympathize them. Smile and wave to Mentas Blaque. Smile and wave.

State the nature of your medical emergency

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2015-12-28 14:15:03 UTC
Mika Firestorm wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Because the Federation's officially agnostic about both politics and religion, nobody at all has the privilege of enforcing their own ideas on other people. There's no such thing as an illegal state of mind in the Federation. You can be for whatever you like; you can worship whatever you like; you can wish agonizing death on people to your heart's content. You can sympathize with the Sani or the Angels or the Guristas or the U-Nats (though the Templis might be pushing it). It doesn't really matter how awful your ideas are unless you go and try to do something about it.

Yes, you can sympathize Sani in the Federation. Even such pirates as Angels or Guristas. Even you can sympathize U-Nats...

But you can't sympathize Caldari. Otherwise, you will in the best case lose your job, and in the worst case you will just disappear. Hell, you don't even have to sympathize them, it's just enough for someone to be convinced enough you sympathize them. Smile and wave to Mentas Blaque. Smile and wave.


Absolutely bloody blatantly false. My drone engineer always tells me that 'The Squids ain't that bad when they aren't shooting at us' and some of my Gallente acquaintances speak of 'let them keep Caldari Prime' in a diner, with no volume control, and still hold onto their jobs. Of course, just as many disagree about the subject of the Caldari, and they too kept their jobs.

It used to be that saying anything nice about the Caldari gets you erased by the Black Eagles. Roden, say what you will about him, put a stop to that. Were Foiritan remained president, I will have much fewer acquaintances left amongst the Gallente.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-12-29 15:58:39 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:

Absolutely bloody blatantly false.

Said a federal lapdog of minmatar origin and known for multiple lies about the person who actually lived in the Federation.

I really don't want to read and comment remains of his deliriums.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#146 - 2015-12-29 17:36:24 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Mika Firestorm wrote:
... But you can't sympathize Caldari. Otherwise, you will in the best case lose your job, and in the worst case you will just disappear. Hell, you don't even have to sympathize them, it's just enough for someone to be convinced enough you sympathize them. Smile and wave to Mentas Blaque. Smile and wave.


Absolutely bloody blatantly false....

It used to be that saying anything nice about the Caldari gets you erased by the Black Eagles. Roden, say what you will about him, put a stop to that. Were Foiritan remained president, I will have much fewer acquaintances left amongst the Gallente.


Not to agree with Ms. Kim, but, respectfully, it seems like that's more a "not anymore" than an "absolutely bloody blatantly false." Foiritan's presidency wasn't all that long ago.

It is good that it doesn't happen anymore, though.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#147 - 2015-12-29 18:05:15 UTC
Roden put a stop to that...?
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#148 - 2015-12-29 23:28:58 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2015-12-30 02:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Mika Firestorm wrote:
... But you can't sympathize Caldari. Otherwise, you will in the best case lose your job, and in the worst case you will just disappear. Hell, you don't even have to sympathize them, it's just enough for someone to be convinced enough you sympathize them. Smile and wave to Mentas Blaque. Smile and wave.


Absolutely bloody blatantly false....

It used to be that saying anything nice about the Caldari gets you erased by the Black Eagles. Roden, say what you will about him, put a stop to that. Were Foiritan remained president, I will have much fewer acquaintances left amongst the Gallente.


Not to agree with Ms. Kim, but, respectfully, it seems like that's more a "not anymore" than an "absolutely bloody blatantly false." Foiritan's presidency wasn't all that long ago.

It is good that it doesn't happen anymore, though.


I stand corrected on the incorrect usage of 'bloody blatantly false'.

So yes, Roden reined in the excesses of the Black Eagles and far as I know instead of letting them terrorise the Federation citizens he turned them against the Caldari State and possibly any other faction outside Federation borders. I wouldn't be surprised if they had buried a Republic-aligned Matari or a hundred Republic-aligned Matari because their operations were construed as 'acting against the Federation'.

I am also fairly sure that their agents are still lurking around, looking for the ever-elusive Caldari spies and all that. Probably tapping into this IGS thread even as we speak. They just aren't erasing Federation citizens for the crime of not hating the Caldari or anyone else who are just trying to move along with their lives. They also won't be erasing anyone Gallente on this thread for showing some degree of respect to the State citizen because they will have to explain themselves to Roden, who is unsympathetic towards Blaque, afterwards.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#150 - 2015-12-30 03:01:18 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
So yes, Roden reined in the excesses of the Black Eagles and far as I know instead of letting them terrorise the Federation citizens he turned them against the Caldari State and possibly any other faction outside Federation borders. I wouldn't be surprised if they had buried a Republic-aligned Matari or a hundred Republic-aligned Matari because their operations were construed as 'acting against the Federation'.

I am also fairly sure that their agents are still lurking around, looking for the ever-elusive Caldari spies and all that. Probably tapping into this IGS thread even as we speak. They just aren't erasing Federation citizens for the crime of not hating the Caldari or anyone else who are just trying to move along with their lives.


... oh. Ick?

Maybe that's covert/intelligence entities for you, though. And it's not as though we don't go around killing people for sometimes even less-concrete reasons.

Still....

"Our tribe has done away with the use of tribal/identity markers as justifications for violence. You, from another tribe, do not share this glorious tribal trait with us. Therefore, so that tribal traits may not be used to justify violence, in the name of my tribe: DIE!"

But then, the world is full of these sorts of things. Maybe little contradictions like that are what makes incarnate ideals so hard to come by.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2015-12-30 03:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Aria Jenneth wrote:


"Our tribe has done away with the use of tribal/identity markers as justifications for violence. You, from another tribe, do not share this glorious tribal trait with us. Therefore, so that tribal traits may not be used to justify violence, in the name of my tribe: DIE!"

But then, the world is full of these sorts of things. Maybe little contradictions like that are what makes incarnate ideals so hard to come by.


This has probably happened in the Republic and among the Minmatar in general. It's human nature. Instinctively, we organise ourselves into factions (Tribe, Megacorp, Political Parties, Religious Sects, Cults, etc), proclaim loyalty, and then proceed to glare at the other faction for not being like us and then start a war with each other over the differences. We are also really damned good at demonising the other faction, so that it seems less wrong, or heck, even right, to not apply our standards on them.

After all, it's not killing people over an asinine reason if they weren't people, yes?

This is why I don't believe in us ever reaching an Utopic future. Even if everything is fine and dandy, with the resources plentiful and creature comforts secured, we will still find some other reason to hate and eventually kill one another, bringing the Utopia crashing down.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#152 - 2015-12-30 09:34:49 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.


His excellency? Is that how they address him now in the Federation?

Anyway, I am a bit at a loss. What did I miss with Roden and the Black Eagles? Last I checked they were busy rounding up spies, collaborators, and minmatar immigrants...
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2015-12-30 09:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Lyn Farel wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.


His excellency? Is that how they address him now in the Federation?

Anyway, I am a bit at a loss. What did I miss with Roden and the Black Eagles? Last I checked they were busy rounding up spies, collaborators, and minmatar immigrants...


Roden ensured that there's oversight on whatever the Black Eagles are doing. They are still rounding up spies and collaborators but they no longer go after Fed citizens who walk around in T-shirts that read 'I Wuv Caldari'.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#154 - 2015-12-30 13:39:33 UTC
Ah I see, thank you.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#155 - 2015-12-30 16:45:58 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.

Besides answering to ravings of Elmund, which don't really worth attention, I'd like to answer on your sentence.

From our side of war we haven't seen that black eagles have stopped their war crimes. Whatever was with Foiritan continues with Roden. I recommend before answering to this problem further get facts yourself.

To get the exact data, you need the following equipment:
1) Scanning probes (core would do)
2) Scanning ship (with fitted probe launcher)
3) Combat ship (fitted against typical gallente damage - thermal and kinetic, able to tank and destroy Federal Navy battleships)
4) Code breaker (or data analyzer, however it is called now...)

Then you should travel to any high security system in Black Rise region. You should scan the system for the anomalies, and it won't take you long to find an entity called something like "FEDERATION DETENTION FACILITY" in Caldari sovereign space. Please, take a look at what they are doing there, I thus omit the details so you could see them with your own eyes.

And don't worry about breaking through, their presence is considered illegal in Caldari Space, thus they are valid targets for any passing by vessel disregarding their allegiance.

And please, please, please. Don't ever speak on this topic again before you would do that. Otherwise it could be simply written off as ignorance and propaganda.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#156 - 2015-12-30 21:49:46 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.


His excellency? Is that how they address him now in the Federation?

Anyway, I am a bit at a loss. What did I miss with Roden and the Black Eagles? Last I checked they were busy rounding up spies, collaborators, and minmatar immigrants...

Now?

His Excellency is the proper honorific to refer to an elected head of state, as would referring to the Emperor or Empress as your Majesty.

As to your… opinions regarding the, so called ‘Black Eagles’.

You will forgive me if I don’t wish to be lectured on liberty by an Imperial citizen.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#157 - 2015-12-30 21:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Diana Kim wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.

Besides answering to ravings of Elmund, which don't really worth attention, I'd like to answer on your sentence.

From our side of war we haven't seen that black eagles have stopped their war crimes. Whatever was with Foiritan continues with Roden. I recommend before answering to this problem further get facts yourself.

To get the exact data, you need the following equipment:
1) Scanning probes (core would do)
2) Scanning ship (with fitted probe launcher)
3) Combat ship (fitted against typical gallente damage - thermal and kinetic, able to tank and destroy Federal Navy battleships)
4) Code breaker (or data analyzer, however it is called now...)

Then you should travel to any high security system in Black Rise region. You should scan the system for the anomalies, and it won't take you long to find an entity called something like "FEDERATION DETENTION FACILITY" in Caldari sovereign space. Please, take a look at what they are doing there, I thus omit the details so you could see them with your own eyes.

And don't worry about breaking through, their presence is considered illegal in Caldari Space, thus they are valid targets for any passing by vessel disregarding their allegiance.

And please, please, please. Don't ever speak on this topic again before you would do that. Otherwise it could be simply written off as ignorance and propaganda.

I know answering you is pointless but I liked the tenor of your response… it was, nearly rational.

So basically what you’re saying is that 'we' are treating enemies like enemies… shocking indeed.

As to ignorance and propaganda… I bow to your expertise.
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#158 - 2015-12-30 22:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.


His excellency? Is that how they address him now in the Federation?

Anyway, I am a bit at a loss. What did I miss with Roden and the Black Eagles? Last I checked they were busy rounding up spies, collaborators, and minmatar immigrants...

Now?

His Excellency is the proper honorific to refer to an elected head of state, as would referring to the Emperor or Empress as your Majesty.

As to your… opinions regarding the, so called ‘Black Eagles’.

You will forgive me if I don’t wish to be lectured on liberty by an Imperial citizen.


Monseur Sygagrius,

I know you can respond more appropriately than with an utterly uninformative and unresponsive ad hominem attack, particularly since the Imperial in question -Adepta Lyn Farel - is one of the few with a nuanced view towards the Federation, having located her New Eden Fair in Caille. You of all people should know better.

May I graciously ask you to try again and enlighten us with a substantive response as to the current, publicly known, status of the 'Black Eagles' and the scope of their operations?

Cordially,

Directrix Lunarisse Aspenstar Daphiti
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#159 - 2015-12-30 23:16:36 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.


His excellency? Is that how they address him now in the Federation?

Anyway, I am a bit at a loss. What did I miss with Roden and the Black Eagles? Last I checked they were busy rounding up spies, collaborators, and minmatar immigrants...

Now?

His Excellency is the proper honorific to refer to an elected head of state, as would referring to the Emperor or Empress as your Majesty.

As to your… opinions regarding the, so called ‘Black Eagles’.

You will forgive me if I don’t wish to be lectured on liberty by an Imperial citizen.


Ah, forgive me then. It is one of the first times I hear that title of address used in the Federation.. I shall keep it in mind for the next times...

But those were not really my opinions... Just facts a few years ago.

I did not know that it changed, thus why I asked.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#160 - 2015-12-31 01:08:00 UTC
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Roden put a stop to that...?

His Excellency, President Roden put a stop... to a great many things.


His excellency? Is that how they address him now in the Federation?

Anyway, I am a bit at a loss. What did I miss with Roden and the Black Eagles? Last I checked they were busy rounding up spies, collaborators, and minmatar immigrants...

Now?

His Excellency is the proper honorific to refer to an elected head of state, as would referring to the Emperor or Empress as your Majesty.

As to your… opinions regarding the, so called ‘Black Eagles’.

You will forgive me if I don’t wish to be lectured on liberty by an Imperial citizen.


Monseur Sygagrius,

I know you can respond more appropriately than with an utterly uninformative and unresponsive ad hominem attack, particularly since the Imperial in question -Adepta Lyn Farel - is one of the few with a nuanced view towards the Federation, having located her New Eden Fair in Caille. You of all people should know better.

May I graciously ask you to try again and enlighten us with a substantive response as to the current, publicly known, status of the 'Black Eagles' and the scope of their operations?

Cordially,

Directrix Lunarisse Aspenstar Daphiti

Nuanced… what I wonder does that mean.

I do however enjoy it when someone presumes to tell me my own mind.

Ms. Farel is, I am sure a fine young woman, who would be better served correcting the many flaws that affect her own kin.

If my replay caused offence, it is regretted.

Considering the vast prospect for the advancement of commerce and the feckless nature of our tribal allies, there… were many within our Federal Union who sought closer relations with the Empire.

I concede I was one of those voices.

But times are changing.

As to the so called ‘Black Eagles’, and their alleged activities, I would humbly… suggest you contact the FIO’s public relations division.