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Faction Police revamp/removal
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Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#41 - 2015-12-29 06:23:41 UTC
Please do this, as someone in fw who is regulerly forced to fire on nullsec gangs with high sec status it means I can actually go to highec occasionally when I need to without having police on my ass
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-12-29 07:02:41 UTC
So, someone continuously performs illegal activities in HS and there should be no punishment for that?

Sure, other players can shoot them down, but why would you try when there's 100 of them sitting on a gate waiting to pounce?
As soon as you engage, you become a legal target for the entire fleet, so they don't even have to worry about concord at that point.
Look, faction police may not do much to gankers, but they at least force them to stay on their toes and keep moving as opposed to camping the gate all day.

CODE has plenty of wardecs going on... If they were afraid of other players policing them, they wouldn't be undocking...
Losing some extra destroyers isn't going to hurt their bottom line when they're getting 2 bil from freighter piñatas after losses are factored.
Besides, the ones that need to be killed are the bumpers, looters, and guards which don't have - sec status..

The only good thing that comes out of this change is that I can run all kinds of missions and not have to worry about faction police blapping me when I go to other faction territory.
Oh crap... I just found a fatal flaw... A positive outcome for carebears...
Welp... Time to scrap this idea... You guys can't go around handing out positive outcomes to carebears; that's just not in your agenda...
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2016-03-04 19:15:23 UTC
Hi All,

James 315's interesting and hopefully prophetic essay on the removal of the Facpo is now available and downloadable in audio format, over on SoundCloud.

I'd be very pleased to welcome you to my little corner of the site.


It's Time To Remove The Faction Police

minerbumping

New Order Audio Archive

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2016-03-04 21:44:15 UTC
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Hi All,

James 315's interesting and hopefully prophetic essay on the removal of the Facpo is now available and downloadable in audio format, over on SoundCloud.

I'd be very pleased to welcome you to my little corner of the site.


It's Time To Remove The Faction Police


Yeah... Cause we all totally care about James 315...

When are you guys set to drink the coolaid, cause i'm really looking forward to that...
Black Pedro
Mine.
#45 - 2016-03-04 22:29:42 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Hi All,

James 315's interesting and hopefully prophetic essay on the removal of the Facpo is now available and downloadable in audio format, over on SoundCloud.

I'd be very pleased to welcome you to my little corner of the site.


It's Time To Remove The Faction Police


Yeah... Cause we all totally care about James 315...

When are you guys set to drink the coolaid, cause i'm really looking forward to that...

You don't have to like James 315 to consider a well-reasoned critique of this game mechanic. There is no reason not to ponder his argument, especially when delivered in such an aesthetically pleasing format as this sound recording.

Welcome back Sasha.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2016-03-05 00:33:17 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

You don't have to like James 315 to consider a well-reasoned critique of this game mechanic. There is no reason not to ponder his argument, especially when delivered in such an aesthetically pleasing format as this sound recording.

Welcome back Sasha.


Ironically, the conversation he's having with himself is a whine thread about the risks of being a criminal in HS, yet blame it on carebears.

Also, the last part of his comments, claiming that it would greatly increase subs, is entirely speculation and COMPLETELY IGNORES the fact that most people that are willing to play MMOs are aren't looking for higher risks that exist within Eve.
If Eve were more like other MMOs where risk doesn't exist (I AM BY NO MEANS SUGGESTING THIS IS GOOD) the subs would likely be significantly greater. Though, we can agree that the game would be greatly dumbed down if this were the case.

What James 315 coincidentally doesn't mention is that there are VERY FEW people actually shooting at criminals, especially in places where it is needed, due to the abundance of criminals having allies within that system.

He's not looking to remove faction police because it's unfair; He's looking to remove faction police because he knows it's the only thing that truly stands between them and unlimited play, in which there is no such thing as punishment. No one is really shooting at them now, apart from faction police, thus he's wanting free reign over HS as a criminal.

Also, the factions are NPCs. Most games have some sort of punishment, provided by the NPCs, if you break the relative "laws" of those NPCs.
They are not being punished for performing illegal activities against other players, they're being punished for performing illegal activities in general.
Go shoot as some NPCs at gates or stations and your standings will likely drop faster than shooting other players, and the punishment will be equivalent.

Not suggesting to make HS more safe, but I'm also not condoning making HS less safe for everyone that isn't a criminal.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#47 - 2016-03-05 02:56:16 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

You don't have to like James 315 to consider a well-reasoned critique of this game mechanic. There is no reason not to ponder his argument, especially when delivered in such an aesthetically pleasing format as this sound recording.

Welcome back Sasha.


Ironically, the conversation he's having with himself is a whine thread about the risks of being a criminal in HS, yet blame it on carebears.
Did you even read the piece? First of all it is not a thread, it is a blog post; a blog post making the argument that the Faction Police add nothing to the game. Nowhere in it does he "blame" carebears for anything nor whine about the existence of the Faction Police. He just rightly points out that the presence of the faction police completely precludes players from shooting criminals in highsec because the NPCs always do it for them. That isn't the carebear's fault but the developer's.

Joe Risalo wrote:
Not suggesting to make HS more safe, but I'm also not condoning making HS less safe for everyone that isn't a criminal.
Again, did you even read the post? One of the other major points is that the Faction Police do not make anyone in highsec safer. Gankers have figured out methods to 100% ignore the Faction Police while exploding other players. The Faction Police do not stop, or even hinder ganks and thus removing would not make anyone less safe. At best, allowing criminals to fly around in highsec while red would enable another form of baiting, but since players can already flag themselves suspect and do it really does not add much. And plus, any self-respecting, risk-averse carebear has their safety on 'green' meaning it presents no additional risk at all to them.

The overwhelming consensus of that Reddit thread was that James 315 is right and the Faction Police should go away. You can put your head on the sand if you want, but it is only a matter of time until CCP removes this useless, content-stifling mechanic.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2016-03-05 03:09:36 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Again, did you even read the post? One of the other major points is that the Faction Police do not make anyone in highsec safer. Gankers have figured out methods to 100% ignore the Faction Police while exploding other players. The Faction Police do not stop, or even hinder ganks and thus removing would not make anyone less safe. At best, allowing criminals to fly around in highsec while red would enable another form of baiting, but since players can already flag themselves suspect and do it really does not add much. And plus, any self-respecting, risk-averse carebear has their safety on 'green' meaning it presents no additional risk at all to them.

The overwhelming consensus of that Reddit thread was that James 315 is right and the Faction Police should go away. You can put your head on the sand if you want, but it is only a matter of time until CCP removes this useless, content-stifling mechanic.
I'm not sure how anyone can conclude that going from a state of impeded presence in space at all times to an impeded presence in space only when another player decides to intervene and further could draw upon the support of other players without interference in ways not possible due to the Fac Po now doesn't alter how "safe" anyone is.

Or is the expectation that allowing -10s to loiter will automatically lead to successful and lossless campaigns to remove them or that they simply will enjoy the privilege without engaging anything themselves?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2016-03-05 07:23:33 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Again, did you even read the post? One of the other major points is that the Faction Police do not make anyone in highsec safer. Gankers have figured out methods to 100% ignore the Faction Police while exploding other players. The Faction Police do not stop, or even hinder ganks and thus removing would not make anyone less safe. At best, allowing criminals to fly around in highsec while red would enable another form of baiting, but since players can already flag themselves suspect and do it really does not add much. And plus, any self-respecting, risk-averse carebear has their safety on 'green' meaning it presents no additional risk at all to them.

The overwhelming consensus of that Reddit thread was that James 315 is right and the Faction Police should go away. You can put your head on the sand if you want, but it is only a matter of time until CCP removes this useless, content-stifling mechanic.
I'm not sure how anyone can conclude that going from a state of impeded presence in space at all times to an impeded presence in space only when another player decides to intervene and further could draw upon the support of other players without interference in ways not possible due to the Fac Po now doesn't alter how "safe" anyone is.

Or is the expectation that allowing -10s to loiter will automatically lead to successful and lossless campaigns to remove them or that they simply will enjoy the privilege without engaging anything themselves?


This basically.
With low sec status, people like CODE have their ability to gank hindered.
That's a penalty.
Remove faction police and suddenly you have 75 ships sitting on gates just waiting to pop something.
If a hostile fleet came in to take advantage of their low sec status, they would either lose more than they would kill, or CODE would bail and they'd get nothing.
Uadama (or however you spell it) would essentially become low sec, thus more dangerous than it already is.
You'd have 100 ships or more just sitting on the Jita undock, waiting for a shiny..
They would camp market hubs, mining hubs, and mission hubs.

Many gankers have already shown they don't care if they lose some catalysts.
I've seen a gank attempt on an orca fail 3 times, and when they finally pulled it off on the 4th attempt, they Still ended up with a positive KD ratio.

Another thing that James 315 fails to point out is the reason why people don't shoot reds.
Once you shoot them, their entire fleet can now hit you without having to worry about CONCORD.
It's like swatting a hornets nest with a news paper; Sure, you'll kill something, but you'll also regret it.

Removing faction police would likely ruin the game.
Many of the people that gank do so because they have some innate disfuntional aspect in which they enjoy causing misery upon others.
Faction police help to keep them in check so that the game can properly function.
The game needs miners, missioners, haulers, and everything in between in order to even allow ganking to be possible.

If you remove the checks and balances from the system, it falls apart.
We can agree that if we removed ganking and wardecs from HS that the game would suffer in both PvP and PVE.
Involuntary PvP is the checks and balances for PVE, while PVE (faction police and CONCORD) is the checks and balances on involuntary pvp.
Likewise, pvp fuels pve, pve fuels pvp.
Remove one cog and the machine fails to operate.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#50 - 2016-03-05 11:17:13 UTC
Another important factor of FacPo is that they prevent certain forms of PVP from happening in High sec, like perma flashy insta lock T3 gate camps with a logistics army to rep gate gun aggro. FacPo enforces certain differentiating factors between High sec and Low sec PVP and forces people to move to Low sec if they want to indulge in the impossible PVP forms. Again something that James and friends do not grasp.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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