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It is the anniversary of the Empress's historic announcement

Author
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#1 - 2015-12-25 12:32:33 UTC
Seven years ago now, the Empress made a historic announcement.

That the Age of Slavery was coming to an end, and that people should prepare for the new Age that was coming.

Since then of course, there's been several important events, such as the untimely death of the Empress.

But such is the nature of Amarr. The sad loss of the Empress should not dissuade all of us here in the Empire, from continuing with the work set before us, namely preparing for the new Age that the Empress foresaw.

So, let us continue her great work, and also the tasks that the new Emperor or Empress shall give us.

For that is the way of Amarr. To constantly prove ourselves worthy.

Good day, and may God bless you all.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/

Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#2 - 2015-12-26 01:30:26 UTC
Louella Dougans wrote:
Seven years ago now, the Empress made a historic announcement.

That the Age of Slavery was coming to an end, and that people should prepare for the new Age that was coming.

Since then of course, there's been several important events, such as the untimely death of the Empress.

But such is the nature of Amarr. The sad loss of the Empress should not dissuade all of us here in the Empire, from continuing with the work set before us, namely preparing for the new Age that the Empress foresaw.

So, let us continue her great work, and also the tasks that the new Emperor or Empress shall give us.

For that is the way of Amarr. To constantly prove ourselves worthy.

Good day, and may God bless you all.


No

If there is money in slaves, then let us make money

One only has to look at the Rens market to see that slaves are gasping fellows incapable of rational thought - give them an inch and they run down to Hek to make a foot

Empress - my backside
Yarosara Ruil
#3 - 2015-12-26 12:08:08 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:

No

If there is money in slaves, then let us make money

One only has to look at the Rens market to see that slaves are gasping fellows incapable of rational thought - give them an inch and they run down to Hek to make a foot

Empress - my backside


Ignorant buffons ought to know the importance of slavery in Amarr culture before flapping their lips. Why it exists, why it isn't just about money and why the late empress decided to emacipate billions of slaves up to nineth generation as to begin to phase out the practice altogether.

We can only hope the next emperor continues what Jamyl Sarum started. For the betterment of everyone.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#4 - 2015-12-26 14:54:43 UTC
An age is coming to an end, the Golden Age. A new age is beginning, the Blood Age.

I have a hypothesis about the Empress's decree. Perhaps she correctly interpreted God's wish that Minmatar slavery come to an end, but she misinterpreted the rest of God's command: that Minmatar slavery come to an end by sacrificing the Minmatar upon the Altar of God, not by freeing them, something that should never be done to a Minmatar.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-12-27 23:30:20 UTC
Has the Empire slavery or hasn't, it doesn't matter for those who are outside of the Empire, including us.

Unfortunately, such primitive savages as minmatars can't get this simple fact. They in their hostile ignorance were even rejoicing the death of Her Majesty, who has released more minmatar slaves than anybody else, including any of these primitive terrorists like Shakor did. While these minmatar "liberators" dare to claim after that they act for the good of their people... I hope the Empire will wipe out this little inconvenience already, better sooner than later.

In any way, whatever path the Empire will choose, I wish them good luck and good profits, with slaves or without.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-01-03 12:03:03 UTC
I have said before and will say many times more that the institution of ethnic slavery is abhorrent, and Jamyl's decree was a much-needed first step towards unilateral reconciliation. Slavery is integral to Amarrian culture, but they should be chosen from amongst criminals and apostates, not conquered peoples (Reclaiming 4:45), who should instead be shown a gentle guiding hand towards illumination. Indeed, said conquest is a lesser calling than is self-sacrifice for the greater good of all mankind, as conquest tends to glorify man over God (St. Nunip 15:11).

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-01-03 12:42:36 UTC
Quattras Peione wrote:
I have said before and will say many times more that the institution of ethnic slavery is abhorrent, and Jamyl's decree was a much-needed first step towards unilateral reconciliation. Slavery is integral to Amarrian culture, but they should be chosen from amongst criminals and apostates, not conquered peoples (Reclaiming 4:45), who should instead be shown a gentle guiding hand towards illumination. Indeed, said conquest is a lesser calling than is self-sacrifice for the greater good of all mankind, as conquest tends to glorify man over God (St. Nunip 15:11).

It is dishonorable to tell our allies what they should and what they shouldn't do inside their territory.

Yet, as far as it is widely known, in the modern time indeed the Amarr Empire enslaves only criminals and prisoners of war. I am not sure about apostates though, there wasn't any word about them in MIO handbook, neither the MIO agent mentioned any.

But if the heresy gets under criminal offense in the Empire space, they can simply be merged with criminals.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#8 - 2016-01-05 14:46:50 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Quattras Peione wrote:
I have said before and will say many times more that the institution of ethnic slavery is abhorrent, and Jamyl's decree was a much-needed first step towards unilateral reconciliation. Slavery is integral to Amarrian culture, but they should be chosen from amongst criminals and apostates, not conquered peoples (Reclaiming 4:45), who should instead be shown a gentle guiding hand towards illumination. Indeed, said conquest is a lesser calling than is self-sacrifice for the greater good of all mankind, as conquest tends to glorify man over God (St. Nunip 15:11).

It is dishonorable to tell our allies what they should and what they shouldn't do inside their territory.

Yet, as far as it is widely known, in the modern time indeed the Amarr Empire enslaves only criminals and prisoners of war. I am not sure about apostates though, there wasn't any word about them in MIO handbook, neither the MIO agent mentioned any.

But if the heresy gets under criminal offense in the Empire space, they can simply be merged with criminals.

Opinions are just that, opinions. You can tell them what to do but its only your opinion until either your government starts chiming in or you achieve some form of power. I hardly see how any orders have been given yet.
Taunrich Kaufmann
Hykkota-Kaufmann Foundaries LLC
#9 - 2016-01-08 14:38:15 UTC
Slavery is as profitable for those of us allied with the Empire as it is intrinsic to Amarrian culture and the Imperial economy. I hope that whoever ascends to the throne will remember this and avoid the continuation of Jamyl Sarum's mistake.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#10 - 2016-01-08 15:21:19 UTC
Taunrich Kaufmann wrote:
Slavery is as profitable for those of us allied with the Empire as it is intrinsic to Amarrian culture and the Imperial economy. I hope that whoever ascends to the throne will remember this and avoid the continuation of Jamyl Sarum's mistake.


From an economic stand point, slave labour is far from efficient.

Costs include:

Housing
Feeding
Clothing
Security
Cost of the Slave (some less well off Holders might have to take on debt in order to purchase better quality or quantity of slaves)
Education and Training
Transportation
Costs of control methods, such as TCMCs or Vitoc
Possible costs resulting from Riots

Then again, the owning of Slaves was never meant to be about maximising profit, but rather the process of Reclaimation.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#11 - 2016-01-08 15:48:17 UTC
Given how much funds are also funneled by my kind into creating riots, uprisings, the staircase and the sheer vulnerability in having a significant potential security threat by default, I don't think anyone can seriously claim slavery to be profitable other than the human traffickers and slavers among the pirate factions that operate with entirely different systems in place.

Of course, what certain kinds of people are willing to pay simply to have power over others, and make sure the rest of the "noble" spheres of influence has an unobstructed view of that status will never cease to amaze. Riding the edge of bankruptcy just to look like you're wealthy and well off is a remarkable concept, but weirdly common.
Yarosara Ruil
#12 - 2016-01-08 16:30:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Yarosara Ruil
Taunrich Kaufmann wrote:
Slavery is as profitable for those of us allied with the Empire as it is intrinsic to Amarrian culture and the Imperial economy. I hope that whoever ascends to the throne will remember this and avoid the continuation of Jamyl Sarum's mistake.


Another ignorant flapping his lips.

Slavery was never meant for profiting. It is a tool for religious indocrination.

Do you honestly think that if the Amarr Empire were not humbled by their defeats against the Jove Empire and the Minmatar Republic in recent history that they wouldn't enslave the Caldari as well? How would you profit from slavery with a collar on your neck and your veins choked with Vitoc, I wonder?

The State's alliance with the Amarr Empire is only possible because of our mutual enemies, the Empire's newfound humility, the cessation of Reclaiming other nations and mutual understanding of honor and virtue between our people. So what you call a "mistake" is actualy the binding agent that keeps New Eden from degenerating into chaos.

Ser Utari Onzo over there is a prime example on how our two nations can come together without need of chains and whips, but with devotion and open minds to our beliefs and creeds. Less can be said of the Federation and their "freedom".
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#13 - 2016-01-08 16:37:33 UTC
Some people have a very one-sided view of slavery. Slaves are Reclaimed peoples, but also a workforce. It is as much for the profit of the Holders as it is for the integration of the slaves into Amarr.

Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#14 - 2016-01-08 16:56:27 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Some people have a very one-sided view of slavery. Slaves are Reclaimed peoples, but also a workforce. It is as much for the profit of the Holders as it is for the integration of the slaves into Amarr.




As Financial director for my Grandfather's business interests, maximising profit is my goal. One can indeed make money off a well motivated and treated indentured labour pool, but I can't help thinking we'd squeeze more isk out of productivity if the system had just a little more reform.

Still, these people need education, both in skills and faith, so the funds naturally get allocated.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2016-01-08 17:08:17 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Some people have a very one-sided view of slavery. Slaves are Reclaimed peoples, but also a workforce. It is as much for the profit of the Holders as it is for the integration of the slaves into Amarr.




As Financial director for my Grandfather's business interests, maximising profit is my goal. One can indeed make money off a well motivated and treated indentured labour pool, but I can't help thinking we'd squeeze more isk out of productivity if the system had just a little more reform.

Still, these people need education, both in skills and faith, so the funds naturally get allocated.


I''ve always said that slavery is far more resource-intensive than a well managed workforce needs to be. For a start, it's really only useful in a command economy, where you can dictate demand for a product or service. In a free-market economy you'll find that demand shifts far too capriciously. Mr Onzo is quite correct when he lists the fixed costs of a slave-based workforce, but he hasn't thought far enough out.

A slave is a capital purchase. If their labour becomes surplus to requirements then you have to sell them in order to make good on that loss - and often you won't be able to make as much for them as you bought them for. Workers in the State chase after job opportunities and are required to train and improve themselves in order to qualify for better posts - many fund their own training!

The Empire is fortunate that it's economic model is permissive towards a command economy on a vast scale ("That planet will grow wheat - for five hundred years!") otherwise they would be poorly placed to maintain the huge number of dependants that slavery forces upon them! This is why I've always found it very easy to believe that slavery is not an economic institution for them.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#16 - 2016-01-08 18:42:46 UTC
Yarosara Ruil wrote:


Another ignorant flapping his lips.

Slavery was never meant for profiting. It is a tool for religious indocrination...

I believe the word you were searching for was INDOCTRINATION, sweetie.

Before throwing stones at others make certain your own house is fortified.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Yarosara Ruil
#17 - 2016-01-08 23:00:37 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:

I believe the word you were searching for was INDOCTRINATION, sweetie.

Before throwing stones at others make certain your own house is fortified.


Strange, I don't think I have heard that one before. First time I had my arguments dismissed over a mispoken word or a malaproper. Truly, you are a paragon of the written word, the guardian of language, the protector of grammar.

...go suck on a lemon you disgusting tribal savage! And choke on it.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-01-09 08:48:37 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Taunrich Kaufmann wrote:
Slavery is as profitable for those of us allied with the Empire as it is intrinsic to Amarrian culture and the Imperial economy. I hope that whoever ascends to the throne will remember this and avoid the continuation of Jamyl Sarum's mistake.


From an economic stand point, slave labour is far from efficient.

Costs include:

Housing
Feeding
Clothing
Security
Cost of the Slave (some less well off Holders might have to take on debt in order to purchase better quality or quantity of slaves)
Education and Training
Transportation
Costs of control methods, such as TCMCs or Vitoc
Possible costs resulting from Riots

Then again, the owning of Slaves was never meant to be about maximising profit, but rather the process of Reclaimation.

Unfortunately, in this question I have to stand on Mr. Onzo's side.
I am well aware that slaves are more cultural Amarr phenomenon rather than economical, and we must not judge them for which convictions they use to live their lives.

As I have said elsewhere, to decide to have slavery or not in the Empire is a decision only for Amarr to take and we, Caldari, should have no word in this. Just as we shouldn't judge Her Majesty's actions.

Mr. Kaufmann, from the State point of view, I simply would like to remind, that in the State slaves remain illegal good, while in the Empire they stay as legal. This creates slight difficulties and misunderstandings on customs.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-01-09 08:51:47 UTC
And, Ms. Ruil. There is no need to be rude to ally, unless they will be rude to you or will start attack you personally. I mean Mr Kaufmann, of course. Rella is a known space garbage.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Taunrich Kaufmann
Hykkota-Kaufmann Foundaries LLC
#20 - 2016-01-09 09:07:03 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Taunrich Kaufmann wrote:
Slavery is as profitable for those of us allied with the Empire as it is intrinsic to Amarrian culture and the Imperial economy. I hope that whoever ascends to the throne will remember this and avoid the continuation of Jamyl Sarum's mistake.


From an economic stand point, slave labour is far from efficient.

Costs include:

Housing
Feeding
Clothing
Security
Cost of the Slave (some less well off Holders might have to take on debt in order to purchase better quality or quantity of slaves)
Education and Training
Transportation
Costs of control methods, such as TCMCs or Vitoc
Possible costs resulting from Riots

Then again, the owning of Slaves was never meant to be about maximising profit, but rather the process of Reclaimation.

This depends on whether or not the holder/s in question provide all of the above amenities to their slave workforce, and what they use their workforce for.

For slaves performing labour duties, housing for would be quite affordable, food and clothing would be spartan and utilitarian, much of the security can be automated. The cost of each slave would be low, education would be unnecessary. Training would be basic and transportation would be no more expensive than transporting any other easily-replaced commodity. Control methods would primarily be the use of fear, using vitoc if/when necessary.

I speak from a purely economic standpoint as I have no interest in any religious faith. For those of us uninhibited by misplaced idealism, working within the Imperial economic area provides unique economic opportunities, including the slave trade.
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