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Command Destroyers Jumping things without aggression
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Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#21 - 2015-12-24 10:29:51 UTC
Station games needed a counter...this is it

Oderint Dum Metuant
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#22 - 2015-12-24 10:37:07 UTC
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
I love the new command destroyers, but chaining them is kind of broken. They sit 100 off undock and wait for something to undock. Once they have their target one actives to drags fleet with, but before the fleet has jumped with the first command desi the second one activated his jump. First on lands on target ship and well before the target has time to react the second comman desi has pulled it off station with the fleet in tow.

To me this is kinda broken. I know it is awesome tactic to use on the enemy, but when you undock from your station and you lost invuln you can be jumped 100km off undock this is broken. Maybe to be jumped off a station you need a weapons timer? Maybe there should be a module/rig with drawbacks you can fit to make you invulnerable to being jumped? I don't know the solution, but this chaining to undock and off with target ships is broken and without counter.

Until CCP fixes this or issues some statement about it I will happily be using this and likely be the victim of it. EVE is a game that needs counters to everything and atm I see no hard counter beyond undocking with a capital to check undock before taking out subcaps.


People are making this out to be OP when really its not. If you see a gang with CD's 100km off undock just dock back up. Really, its that simple. Promise

Oderint Dum Metuant
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-12-25 09:16:05 UTC
Aralieus wrote:
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
I love the new command destroyers, but chaining them is kind of broken. They sit 100 off undock and wait for something to undock. Once they have their target one actives to drags fleet with, but before the fleet has jumped with the first command desi the second one activated his jump. First on lands on target ship and well before the target has time to react the second comman desi has pulled it off station with the fleet in tow.

To me this is kinda broken. I know it is awesome tactic to use on the enemy, but when you undock from your station and you lost invuln you can be jumped 100km off undock this is broken. Maybe to be jumped off a station you need a weapons timer? Maybe there should be a module/rig with drawbacks you can fit to make you invulnerable to being jumped? I don't know the solution, but this chaining to undock and off with target ships is broken and without counter.

Until CCP fixes this or issues some statement about it I will happily be using this and likely be the victim of it. EVE is a game that needs counters to everything and atm I see no hard counter beyond undocking with a capital to check undock before taking out subcaps.


People are making this out to be OP when really its not. If you see a gang with CD's 100km off undock just dock back up. Really, its that simple. Promise
^^This.

I assume you can also dock up just after the baddies MJD in but before the second MJD kicks in, if you're paying attention to the grid?

Also maybe instawarp bookmarks?

Anyway, isn't it basically the same situation (and same counters) as having evil nados sitting 150km off the undock?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#24 - 2015-12-25 12:35:42 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
^^This.

I assume you can also dock up just after the baddies MJD in but before the second MJD kicks in, if you're paying attention to the grid?

Also maybe instawarp bookmarks?

Anyway, isn't it basically the same situation (and same counters) as having evil nados sitting 150km off the undock?


You can no longer split gangs on gate when roaming though.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-12-26 20:22:19 UTC
Every time I have attempted to troll with this module I am given the message "External factors are preventing your [Large micro jump drive] from activating at this time." What are the activation limitations on this module?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#26 - 2015-12-27 04:14:29 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Every time I have attempted to troll with this module I am given the message "External factors are preventing your [Large micro jump drive] from activating at this time." What are the activation limitations on this module?


are you
a. scrammed or hic pointed
b. in highsec

either will prevent activation.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-12-27 12:10:20 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Every time I have attempted to troll with this module I am given the message "External factors are preventing your [Large micro jump drive] from activating at this time." What are the activation limitations on this module?


are you
a. scrammed or hic pointed
b. in highsec

either will prevent activation.

GAY

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#28 - 2015-12-27 22:05:57 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Every time I have attempted to troll with this module I am given the message "External factors are preventing your [Large micro jump drive] from activating at this time." What are the activation limitations on this module?


are you
a. scrammed or hic pointed
b. in highsec

either will prevent activation.

GAY


Not that I don't see that it could be fun at once and a while even in High Sec, let's be honest; in High Sec, this would be for no other purpose that simply to troll. More specifically, far fewer people would likely use this as intended and more would use this just to **** people off. While trolling can be fun, even for the victim depending on how much of a good sport they are, every freighter or mining pilot in High Sec would ***** up and down and they'd have good reason to. Much like the phrase, "to much of a good thing." Why do you think ganking, while allowed -- even I dare say encouraged -- is still given a punishing mechanic to balance it out so that you can't gank without giving something up along the way?

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#29 - 2015-12-28 17:46:07 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Every time I have attempted to troll with this module I am given the message "External factors are preventing your [Large micro jump drive] from activating at this time." What are the activation limitations on this module?


are you
a. scrammed or hic pointed
b. in highsec

either will prevent activation.

In all seriousness though why are the activation criteria not specified in the items info window as with bombs, cynos other non-high-sec equipment.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2015-12-29 09:22:49 UTC
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
I love the new command destroyers, but chaining them is kind of broken. They sit 100 off undock and wait for something to undock. Once they have their target one actives to drags fleet with, but before the fleet has jumped with the first command desi the second one activated his jump. First on lands on target ship and well before the target has time to react the second comman desi has pulled it off station with the fleet in tow.

To me this is kinda broken. I know it is awesome tactic to use on the enemy, but when you undock from your station and you lost invuln you can be jumped 100km off undock this is broken. Maybe to be jumped off a station you need a weapons timer? Maybe there should be a module/rig with drawbacks you can fit to make you invulnerable to being jumped? I don't know the solution, but this chaining to undock and off with target ships is broken and without counter.

Until CCP fixes this or issues some statement about it I will happily be using this and likely be the victim of it. EVE is a game that needs counters to everything and atm I see no hard counter beyond undocking with a capital to check undock before taking out subcaps.



Question is.. can you pack enough of them in the 6 km sphere.. so that on a sequence of jumps non stop.. when the last jump is completed the first one cooldown has already passed? :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#31 - 2015-12-29 15:46:21 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
I love the new command destroyers, but chaining them is kind of broken. They sit 100 off undock and wait for something to undock. Once they have their target one actives to drags fleet with, but before the fleet has jumped with the first command desi the second one activated his jump. First on lands on target ship and well before the target has time to react the second comman desi has pulled it off station with the fleet in tow.

To me this is kinda broken. I know it is awesome tactic to use on the enemy, but when you undock from your station and you lost invuln you can be jumped 100km off undock this is broken. Maybe to be jumped off a station you need a weapons timer? Maybe there should be a module/rig with drawbacks you can fit to make you invulnerable to being jumped? I don't know the solution, but this chaining to undock and off with target ships is broken and without counter.

Until CCP fixes this or issues some statement about it I will happily be using this and likely be the victim of it. EVE is a game that needs counters to everything and atm I see no hard counter beyond undocking with a capital to check undock before taking out subcaps.



Question is.. can you pack enough of them in the 6 km sphere.. so that on a sequence of jumps non stop.. when the last jump is completed the first one cooldown has already passed? :P


Jump bridge all the way to jita and back 100km at a time :)
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2015-12-29 19:59:39 UTC
Deep safes maybe?
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#33 - 2015-12-30 23:14:56 UTC
Was followed today by a command dessy and behind him a small gang I couldn't fight.

They certainly have every card in their favour. They can try to jump you off gate, and just jump out of system at the slightest hint of risk and immediately try again.

You can shoot him so he must take gate before the spool up, but now you have a fleet landing on your ass and you are aggressed. He isn't, so he can just jump straight back and jump you away.

You can hold aggression, but that just lets him jump you off gate to be killed.

You can jump gate, but so can he even though he tried to move you. Repeat again.

You can if you are extremely lucky on multiple crashes of the gate, appear far enough away that you can warp to safety.

They are not totally broken, and I must admit I've had some laughs being on the wrong end of them, but in this case a player can activate a module FORCING your hand on a gate, and take no aggressive flag for that at all. That to me is imbalanced. The module is good, not taking an aggression flag for it is pants-on-head ********.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#34 - 2015-12-31 07:28:54 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
I believe it is working as intended.


What if the intended function was bad or indeed broken?

There are plenty of ships that were broken on release and remained OP for a long, long time. The hatchet of ship balance takes a long time to fall.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-12-31 11:09:09 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
I believe it is working as intended.


What if the intended function was bad or indeed broken?

There are plenty of ships that were broken on release and remained OP for a long, long time. The hatchet of ship balance takes a long time to fall.



because the game designers need to give time for peope to adapt and find new tactics. If they take a decision before that they might be taking a decision upon the polayers incompetence rather than on the ship. That has already happened in apst.

People used to say bombs (of Sbombers) were useless.. time passed.. and omfg now they are suddenly OP!!! PEople said that the rokh would completely dominate the game when it was introduced... guess what? few months later and everyone had forgotten it..

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#36 - 2016-01-03 15:40:24 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
PEople said that the rokh would completely dominate the game when it was introduced... guess what? few months later and everyone had forgotten it..


This is so true, I love the rokh but I also hate it.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#37 - 2016-01-04 14:08:14 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
dont be mesmerized by the effect like i was when i first saw it. just thought wtf is this blue...wtf is happening. then boom off station.

lesson learned the hard way. Now i keep an eye and dock up if i see it happening.


gets really boring gatecamping and your fleet mates keep jumping you 100km off the gate everytime a ship comes through :(

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
MP2008
Restinotia Corp
#38 - 2016-01-12 03:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: MP2008
I'm sick and tired of hearing the stupid comment "Station games needed a counter this is it". First of all, not only are station games a legitimate part of eve gameplay, but this mechanic is completely broken.

Second, the implications things like chain jumping has on fleet fights of all sizes is devastating and stupid.The cornerstone of EVE PVP balance is that everything has a counter. Chain jumping, has no counter. If you are in a fleet engagement and 2 or more command destroyers decide to chain jump, even if you see it coming there is nothing you can do.

Even with an instalock remote seboed to crap interceptor you cannot lock and scram the 2nd CD before your fleet gets clipped.
This is outrageously broken and absolutely decimates any kind of brawl fleet. And don't even get me started on how broken it is

When a smaller entity with say, a 40 man fleet tries to fight a larger entity with say a 100 man fleet. That larger fleet can literally
throw 20 of their pilots in these things and scatter your logi and support to the 4 winds and render any chance that smaller entity had of winning nill. Scram Chains do not work.

Anyone who cannot see the implications of that, or has some stupid comment like "RIP station games" or "pay attention" has
completely missed the point of this post, or has no meaningful experience in PVP or fleet tactics and composition.

CCP, YOU NEED TO FIX THIS ASAP IT IS BROKEN!
BAJRAN BALI
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2016-01-12 03:35:15 UTC
What if CCP added a cool down timer for ppl jumped like the jump fatigue timers. This would still allow the ships to jump ppl, but would break the chain jumping. Maybe add a rig or some module that stops you ship from being jumped... Maybe warp stabs effect it.

YouTube: kds119 Twitter: @realkds119 Blog: derptw.blogspot.com
Astera Zandraki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2016-01-12 04:03:14 UTC
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
What if CCP added a cool down timer for ppl jumped like the jump fatigue timers. This would still allow the ships to jump ppl, but would break the chain jumping. Maybe add a rig or some module that stops you ship from being jumped... Maybe warp stabs effect it.


Adding another timer simply wouldn't work. This thing utters destroys small, well comped fleets. Just had a couple fights, one without these things, another with. The first without was about 5 sacs, 3 Guards and a Damnation vs about 20 or so Jackdaws + logi, fight went well, they didn't stick around but the odds seemed fairly even. The other was a skirmish fleet (Oracles, Gila, Orthus, VNI and EWAR)..... and two command destroyers, the fight wasn't fun, we were locked onto our overviews, waiting for the cmd dessies to get in range, until they just double jumped us, twice. Those two ships represented a win button, the opposing fleet just waited until the right moment and boom. Now, imagine that being done on a larger scale, imagine 20 faction battleships vs 40 or 50 HACs etc, one side or the other simply brings in a couple of these and the fight's over, done.

In all, the mechanic is simply far too strong on a ship that is far too cheap, fast and well tanked. If it was an in-fleet manoeuvring module it would be GREAT! I'd love that ****, having to correctly pilot to stay in alignment as your cmd dessies try to jump you in position.
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