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Level 4 Battleship
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Phit Soster
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-12-24 00:46:40 UTC
I recently bought a character that can fly quite a few different Battleships and I was wondering which one would perform better in level 4 Missions for the Amarr Empire.

The character in question can fly a Paladin/Nightmare ( T2 Beam or T2 Pulse ), Rattlesnake ( RHML, Meta 4 Cruiser/Torpedos, T2 Sentries and Heavy Drones ), Vindicator ( T2 Hybrids ), Barghest ( RHML or Meta 4 Cruiser/Torpedo ) and the Machariel ( T2 Artillery and Autocannons ).

I only have experience in doing lvl 4 missions with a MJD Sentry Dominix. My fit relied on keeping distance to avoid incoming damage while slowly killing things at range. My tank wasn't enough so I had to either MJD again very often or warp off.

This time around I'm looking for something with enough tank to cover my occasional screw up ( like hitting Kruul first and spawning all those Battleships right on top of me ) but that can also clear things super fast when I'm 100% paying attention. I don't want any Faction/Deadspace modules on the fits so it has to work with a full T2 fit.

What do you guys think?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-12-24 01:12:32 UTC
I think you should have continued to train your original character and developed your player skills as you were training your skills to improve your ships capabilities.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-12-24 01:15:44 UTC
The standard accepted "best" for blitzing is the Mach but never flown one myself.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2015-12-24 01:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
I'd personally go with the Paladin. T2 pulse lasers and Scorch.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2015-12-24 02:10:24 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I think you should have continued to train your original character and developed your player skills as you were training your skills to improve your ships capabilities.

I have to agree. the domi is capable of so much more than run away MJD sniping, if that is all you can do with it it sounds like there is a lack of SP and/or skill. Adding a bunch of SP and a shiny ship just sounds like a pricey mistake waiting to happen. I like MJDs as a gtfo button, and on marauders they can be nice to triangle jump to gates, but to fully rely on one for range tanking feels like you could use a bit more experience.

for amarr lv4s paladin all the way. although having a mach in addition is nice as it can be used for the blitz missions, or the few missions where em/therm is a bad choice.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6 - 2015-12-24 02:59:10 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Adding a bunch of SP and a shiny ship just sounds like a pricey mistake waiting to happen.

I disagree. The whole point of acquiring new characters is to "leapfrog" over any SP hurdles and I'm certainly not going to fault anyone for wanting to make the most of their EVE experience. Marauders are an absolute riot to fly and they can easily be T2 fit to avoid any ganking concerns. The Machariel is great for blitzing, but you have to know what you're doing with it or you can easily run into trouble with a lot of missions.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7 - 2015-12-24 05:42:38 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'd personally go with the Paladin. T2 pulse lasers and Scorch.

If you are going to do full clear in Amarr space then Paladin with T2 pulse and scorch is the best possible choice. As to how to avoid a shiny loss i strongly recommend overtaking to start with. As you learn the capabilities of the ship you can up the dps and lower the tank. You will also need to take into account how stable your internet connection is as this is a particular concern when it comes to marauders and will dictate if you go burst tanking or cap stable-ish.

once you are comfortable with the ship and with bastion, look into a polarized fit with a cheap pith x-l booster and boost amps. It's a straight up 25% dps increase.

last suggestion would be to fit hyperspasial velocity rigs. Trust me, totally worth it.

For blitzing/serious isk making check my Sig.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2015-12-24 08:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Adding a bunch of SP and a shiny ship just sounds like a pricey mistake waiting to happen.

I disagree. The whole point of acquiring new characters is to "leapfrog" over any SP hurdles and I'm certainly not going to fault anyone for wanting to make the most of their EVE experience. Marauders are an absolute riot to fly and they can easily be T2 fit to avoid any ganking concerns. The Machariel is great for blitzing, but you have to know what you're doing with it or you can easily run into trouble with a lot of missions.

In general I agree with what you say, however in this case the OP seems inexperienced to the point that just SP leapfrogging could leave them in a bad spot. A domi should be able to complete every mission without MJDing, or needing to warp out, and that is with rather low sp. Jumping straight into a paladin and running out of cap because you forget the LAR is running, and/or it's a blood raider mission and you get nos'd out. Or try running with a undersized rep, and over aggroing and not knowing how to prioritize npcs to get out of it, or screwing up a bastion cycle and not being able to mjd to safety. And agree on the mach, if I flew it with the fit I use now as a newb I very probably would have lost a bunch

Personally I prefer a tachyon fit, but it is also easy (at least for now) to bring a mobile depot and swap to pulse. Inside 30km or so conflag is awesome, but many missions you kill stuff with tachyons and multi easily before it gets inside 30km.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2015-12-24 08:41:20 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
In general I agree with what you say, however in this case the OP seems inexperienced to the point that just SP leapfrogging could leave them in a bad spot. A domi should be able to complete every mission without MJDing, or needing to warp out, and that is with rather low sp. Jumping straight into a paladin and running out of cap because you forget the LAR is running, and/or it's a blood raider mission and you get nos'd out. Or try running with a undersized rep, and over aggroing and not knowing how to prioritize npcs to get out of it, or screwing up a bastion cycle and not being able to mjd to safety. And agree on the mach, if I flew it with the fit I use now as a newb I very probably would have lost a bunch

Personally I prefer a tachyon fit, but it is also easy (at least for now) to bring a mobile depot and swap to pulse. Inside 30km or so conflag is awesome, but many missions you kill stuff with tachyons and multi easily before it gets inside 30km.

There are a few missions where it is not overly difficult to trigger many of the spawn waves or aggress too quickly. In a non-Marauder setup, unless you have a MJD you will quickly find yourself overwhelmed and basically hooped. Guristas Assault and Damsel in Distress are two perfect examples ("It's a trap!").

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Phit Soster
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-12-24 10:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Phit Soster
I appreciate your concern Chainsaw Plankton but I think I'll be fine. Here's the Domi fit in case you are wondering:

[Dominix, Dominix]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Solace Scoped Remote Armor Repairer
Dual Light Pulse Laser I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

As you can see, it has extremely low tank but it can hit from 140km with Wardens. Not the greatest but it works, I just got tired of MJDing so much in every mission pocket ( 1 away to pull range once incoming DPS got too high, 1 to return to the gate, maybe a 3rd if I ****** up and hit the wrong thing ).

So it seems that the Paladin is the most "newbie" friendly out of the listed ships, I'll try to fit one up and play with it on SISI to get used to Bastion and Lasers. I'll also try to come up with a fit for the Machariel and test that one out too for missions that don't have a EM/TH weakness.

@Anize Oramara

Unfortunately I don't have a good frigate pilot so Burners will have to wait.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#11 - 2015-12-24 13:32:37 UTC
I started off with a Domi, but run a Machariel/Vargur setup now. This gives me a lot of flexibility between fast vs lots of tank needed missions.

I haven't run a laser battleship, but it would be nice to avoid the ammo costs.

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-12-24 13:44:09 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'd personally go with the Paladin. T2 pulse lasers and Scorch.

If you are going to do full clear in Amarr space then Paladin with T2 pulse and scorch is the best possible choice. As to how to avoid a shiny loss i strongly recommend overtaking to start with. As you learn the capabilities of the ship you can up the dps and lower the tank. You will also need to take into account how stable your internet connection is as this is a particular concern when it comes to marauders and will dictate if you go burst tanking or cap stable-ish.

once you are comfortable with the ship and with bastion, look into a polarized fit with a cheap pith x-l booster and boost amps. It's a straight up 25% dps increase.

last suggestion would be to fit hyperspasial velocity rigs. Trust me, totally worth it.

For blitzing/serious isk making check my Sig.


Sigh...you people just don't know the powaaa of the Tach Pally.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-12-24 13:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Phit Soster wrote:
I recently bought a character that can fly quite a few different Battleships and I was wondering which one would perform better in level 4 Missions for the Amarr Empire.

The character in question can fly a Paladin/Nightmare ( T2 Beam or T2 Pulse ), Rattlesnake ( RHML, Meta 4 Cruiser/Torpedos, T2 Sentries and Heavy Drones ), Vindicator ( T2 Hybrids ), Barghest ( RHML or Meta 4 Cruiser/Torpedo ) and the Machariel ( T2 Artillery and Autocannons ).

I only have experience in doing lvl 4 missions with a MJD Sentry Dominix. My fit relied on keeping distance to avoid incoming damage while slowly killing things at range. My tank wasn't enough so I had to either MJD again very often or warp off.

This time around I'm looking for something with enough tank to cover my occasional screw up ( like hitting Kruul first and spawning all those Battleships right on top of me ) but that can also clear things super fast when I'm 100% paying attention. I don't want any Faction/Deadspace modules on the fits so it has to work with a full T2 fit.

What do you guys think?



Tach/Navy Gamma Pally would solve all your problems. THE only time you're gonna need a different ship other than the Pally is if you're shooting angel rats, in which case you use a Mach/Vargur. If you want more info, let me know and I'll post my fit for you (it's one of the best fits out there for running missions).
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2015-12-24 15:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Phit Soster wrote:
Here's the Domi fit in case you are wondering:

Have you considered a Rattlesnake? It will put out twice the DPS of any Domi (and most Marauders) and is incredibly tanky to boot. And you pretty much never need to use a MJD except to get into position if so desired.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Voxinian
#15 - 2015-12-24 17:16:08 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Adding a bunch of SP and a shiny ship just sounds like a pricey mistake waiting to happen.

I disagree. The whole point of acquiring new characters is to "leapfrog" over any SP hurdles and I'm certainly not going to fault anyone for wanting to make the most of their EVE experience. .


Maybe if you have a decent skill trained first/main account and you want to buy an alt that has already the right skills setup. The main account should be trained by yourself otherwise as said, you will get hurt.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2015-12-24 17:37:21 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Maybe if you have a decent skill trained first/main account and you want to buy an alt that has already the right skills setup. The main account should be trained by yourself otherwise as said, you will get hurt.

Simply whiling away the time while you accrue SP isn't going to ensure anything except boredom.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Phit Soster
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-12-25 02:42:19 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Tach/Navy Gamma Pally would solve all your problems. THE only time you're gonna need a different ship other than the Pally is if you're shooting angel rats, in which case you use a Mach/Vargur. If you want more info, let me know and I'll post my fit for you (it's one of the best fits out there for running missions).


Please do share. I'm not very good with coming up with my own fits.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Have you considered a Rattlesnake? It will put out twice the DPS of any Domi (and most Marauders) and is incredibly tanky to boot. And you pretty much never need to use a MJD except to get into position if so desired.


Thought about it, but isn't the Paladin and the Machariel an upgrade in terms of clear speed compared to the Rattlesnake? I'll definitely consider one if something goes super wrong and I end up losing the Paladin/Machariel because Rattles are cheap, but I'd like to move away from drones atm and try something else. Specially since NPC AI seems to be bugged and targeting drones like crazy according to some posts in this forum.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2015-12-25 02:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Phit Soster wrote:
Thought about it, but isn't the Paladin and the Machariel an upgrade in terms of clear speed compared to the Rattlesnake? I'll definitely consider one if something goes super wrong and I end up losing the Paladin/Machariel because Rattles are cheap, but I'd like to move away from drones atm and try something else. Specially since NPC AI seems to be bugged and targeting drones like crazy according to some posts in this forum.

The Machariel is really geared towards blitzing. It doesn't really have enough tank to brawl most missions where you need or want to kill everything. Also bear in-mind that a lot of the stated DPS is on paper, so you're going to only get about half that when shooting out to maximum range (unlike most Marauders).

Marauders will basically tank any mission, and are pretty much idiot-proof - even if you screw up. Pirate battleships deal the most DPS bar-none in their respective classes, and the Rattlesnake is at the top of the list in addition to being particularly tanky. The 'glitch' with the NPC AI seems to be mostly relegated to null-sec, and it's something CCP is looking into (I haven't encountered it personally in high-sec).

If you're going to be running in Amarr space, the Paladin is certainly well-suited for the task.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#19 - 2015-12-25 03:21:31 UTC
Have to agree with the Paladin for Amarr space rats. Rattler if you end up facing other targets, but the Paladin will fry and nuke Bloods and Nation rats like using an magnifier and sunlight on an ant hill. Personally, I dislike pulse for the sheer reliance on Scorch (not a bad crystal, but burns up much faster than faction), but then again that is more of a pet-peeve of mine rather than a hefty downside. Tachs can push redunkulous ranges even with IN Multi, though even with Gleam to back it up they have trouble tracking deep in optimals. Pulse is better at times for the application and is easier on the cap which, fortunately, the Pally has plenty of. Use tachs to punch rats square in the throat the moment they spawn in.

Considering the cargo space, the fact that crystals take very little of it, and ease of use deployables, I'd bring both guns and an MDU.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#20 - 2015-12-25 04:28:53 UTC
The main thing I like with pulse is the shorter cycle time over tachyons.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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