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The negative reviews of EVE on steam

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Solecist Project
#141 - 2015-12-24 10:51:34 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Filthy Infidel wrote:
"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you."


Then people wonder why EVE has low player retention.

If new people weren't mining and running missions like idiots it would probably be better.

I bet the security button added tons of subs, btw.
And the FF toggle.

CCP needs to stop catering to the weak.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#142 - 2015-12-24 10:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Solecist Project wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Filthy Infidel wrote:
"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you."


Then people wonder why EVE has low player retention.

If new people weren't mining and running missions like idiots it would probably be better.

I bet the security button added tons of subs, btw.
And the FF toggle.

CCP needs to stop catering to the weak.


:-)
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#143 - 2015-12-24 12:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Otso Bakarti
Memphis Baas wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Time for the apologists, fanbois and sneaky petes to chime in.


No, not really. We can detect flame bait posts when we see them.

The initial post is clearly designed to inflame the EVE players against the Steam reviewers. The OP's follow-up post is an attack aimed at veterans. And your post continues the attack while tying it into the original flamebait topic. I'm guessing you're an alt.

So, no thanks, and IBTL.
I find it difficult to imagine someone can read what the OP posted then come up with this conclusion. But, then, these days the hard to imagine is getting easier and easier to believe. I'll just say this reaction is a wild misreading that smacks of intent itself...if the OP is the pot as this response infers, than this response is the kettle calling it black.

Careful who you correct, cuz.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Rhalina Sedai
Doomheim
#144 - 2015-12-24 13:20:56 UTC
I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Big smile Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. Ugh

FSOP (Free Systems of Panorad)
Mithandra
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-12-24 14:15:42 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

This feels like special needs kids argueing with Einstein about how the universe works.



Can't breathe, laughing so hard, sides hurting, Big smile

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
Solecist Project
#146 - 2015-12-24 14:16:56 UTC
Mithandra wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

This feels like special needs kids argueing with Einstein about how the universe works.



Can't breathe, laughing so hard, sides hurting, Big smile

Merry Christmas! :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2015-12-24 14:40:37 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Ok, pa tí la perra gorda.

Learning EVE with 5x more ships, 20x more mechanics and 50x more ways to die than now will be so easy that the average MMO player will be PvPing like a pro within 1 hour of starting the game, because the more things there are to learn, the easier it is to learn to play. Who am I to oppose the obvious, I just can't win. Roll


Earlier this year, I found a guy who'd only been playing since 2014, and had maybe a dozen kills on his KB, all CODE catalysts with top damage by concord. Within a week with me, he was in lowsec with a meta 4 Thorax killing a 2008 toon in a t2 fit rupture. He got that kill with less than 5 mil SP.

Don't tell me this game is hard to learn, because I've literally seen otherwise. It's complex to learn, not hard. With the right training plan, though, one that gives a new person the freedom to choose as much as the game itself does, they WILL be pvp pros within at least a week. Maybe not an hour, but I'm calling out your hyperbole on that one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#148 - 2015-12-24 15:02:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Rhalina Sedai wrote:
I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Big smile Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. Ugh



+1

The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).

If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.

My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...

In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.

Screw that.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2015-12-24 15:09:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Rhalina Sedai wrote:
I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Big smile Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. Ugh



+1

The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).

If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.

My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...

In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.

Screw that.


Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2015-12-24 15:24:39 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Rhalina Sedai wrote:
I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Big smile Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. Ugh



+1

The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).

If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.

My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...

In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.

Screw that.


Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism.


I happily stand corrected Big smile
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#151 - 2015-12-24 15:30:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1

The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).

If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.

My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...

In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.

Screw that.


Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#152 - 2015-12-24 15:37:33 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.

I don't see a problem.


Your mission is not to get rid of stupid but to make them try.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#153 - 2015-12-24 15:47:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Rhalina Sedai wrote:
I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Big smile Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. Ugh



+1

The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).

If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.

My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...

In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.

Screw that.


Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism.


I happily stand corrected Big smile

For EVE to be successful (after a dozen years), informed citizens all agree that it needs to adopt the following mindset (catchphrases) ASAP.

"No player left behind"
"Everyone's a winner"
"Freedom is slavery"
"Ignorance is strength"
"War is peace"

... otherwise, this game will NEVER take off...

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#154 - 2015-12-24 15:51:02 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1

The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).

If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.

My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...

In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.

Screw that.


Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.


Well, the actual game mechanics are fairly basic (for the most part), figuring out how and when to use those mechanics to successfully attain your goals has proven to be the challenge for most.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Solecist Project
#155 - 2015-12-24 15:51:59 UTC
And don't forget that highsec needs to be safe space for the new players.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#156 - 2015-12-24 15:55:35 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Well, the actual game mechanics are fairly basic (for the most part), figuring out how and when to use those mechanics to successfully attain your goals has proven to be the challenge for most.


Figuring out how and when to use game mechanics is a core tenet and the stumping block of every game out there. Which is something that someone with previous gaming experience should be used to.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2015-12-24 16:05:27 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Rhalina Sedai wrote:
I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Big smile Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. Ugh



+1

The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).

If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.

My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...

In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.

Screw that.


Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism.


I happily stand corrected Big smile

For EVE to be successful (after a dozen years), informed citizens all agree that it needs to adopt the following mindset (catchphrases) ASAP.

"No player left behind"
"Everyone's a winner"
"Freedom is slavery"
"Ignorance is strength"
"War is peace"

... otherwise, this game will NEVER take off...


Don't forget 'listen and believe'. Roll

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Solecist Project
#158 - 2015-12-24 16:15:56 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Well, the actual game mechanics are fairly basic (for the most part), figuring out how and when to use those mechanics to successfully attain your goals has proven to be the challenge for most.


Figuring out how and when to use game mechanics is a core tenet and the stumping block of every game out there. Which is something that someone with previous gaming experience should be used to.

I'm not sure that'snaccurate for most games nowadays.
People do not really learn when help messages constantly tell you what to do.

There's a big difference between throwing someone into the sea so he learns swimming ...
... or teaching someone how to swim by telling him how it works.

The former is far more effective, because it forces people to use their brains.
The latter is just information intake with no deeper thought process behind it.


So, while I don'tmdisagree with you,
I believe that the modern gamer has degraded mostly to a pattern based robot with no thinking skills whatsoever.

Just look at all the special needs kids here on the forums who can't even figure out how to use google.
Or how to form a coherent thought. Or how logic works. Or what PvP means. Too long, that list ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#159 - 2015-12-24 16:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Solecist Project wrote:


People do not really learn when help messages constantly tell you what to do.


Exactly. CCP might not think so, But I think all those helpful guides, pop ups and safeties hurt more than help. Feeling 'pain' (like the emotional pain you feel when you accidentally jump into low sec and get killed, like most of us did prior to 2011) can be highly motivating.

This is why I wasn't surprised when CCP Rise talked about not only being unable to find proof that ganking makes people leave but also about the idea that it might even make some people stay longer. A game that ticks you off (or lets people tick you off) is way more interesting than a game that strives to keep you from getting ticked off.

I'll bet you many of those negative steam reviewers never really got killed while playing EVE but rather mostly did low level pve in safety and got bored.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#160 - 2015-12-24 16:28:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


People do not really learn when help messages constantly tell you what to do.


Exactly. CCP might not think so, But I think all those helpful guides, pop ups and safeties hurt more than help. Feeling 'pain' (like the emotional pain you feel when you accidentally jump into low sec and get killed, like most of us did prior to 2011) can be highly motivating.

This is why I wasn't surprised when CCP Rise talked about not only being unable to fine proof that ganking makes people leave but also about the idea that it might even make some people stay longer. A game that ticks you off (or lets people tick you off) is way more interesting than a game that strives to keep you from getting ticked off.

I'll bet you many of those negative steam reviewers never really got killed while playing EVE but rather mostly did low level pve in safety and got bored.


Confirmation bias. This game is advertised as a PvP thing, of course that people that stay aren't dettered by PvP.