EVE General Discussion

you do understand what a "rebuild and repair" phase is right? and what typically happens immediately after?

For some incomprehensible reason people are comparing eve to training to fly in 1915.

Weird

Yes there are more skills to learn , but guess what kiddies, unlike pikachu, you dont need to get them all

The only injury 90 percent of us are likely to get whilst training eve is repetitive strain injury. I dont even want to consider what sort of injury the other 10 percent are likely to get, but it probably revolves round that second monitor.

Why are the "fanboys" so vehement in thier defence of eve? I'll tell ya. Its in direct response to clueless asswipe rejects from lesser mmos descending enmass thinking that "just because" eve doesnt cater to the twitch crowd, it must be converted by the sword into some sort of substandard space sim, dumbed down for the masses, so that they, the dumb masses, can shine for a week before they move on to the next game that promises them vicarious shallow thrills.

Eve is a long term game. Pay the fee and get over it.

Well that's certainly an interesting arrangement of thoughts.

Chiming in as a legitimately licensed aircraft pilot here. with ~2800 hours in fixed wing cabin monoplanes, 8 hours twin engine turboprop/turbojet, 2 hours jet, heavy, and 30 minutes rotary (not a big fan of flying helicopters, they give me goosebumps). I also scored a giftcard from some relatives to bum about in an old Air Force Aermacchi a few years back, that was fun a lot of fun.

First of all, there is a very big difference between learning to fly in peacetime, and learning to fly during a war, especially when you're training conscripts to replace veterans or, in the case of WWI, training most pilots from scratch because there is no such thing as veterans with lived experience to help out because nobody's ever flown before. Most pilots today also don't have to contend with the fact that the field they're training from isn't under the threat of bombardment or assault at any given moment.

That being said, as the technology improved and flight controls became more universal, learning to fly became very easy, very fast, and probably since the '30s, learning to fly has been considered easier than learning to drive. (To top that off, I'll add I had a private pilot's license before I had a driver's license.) The kinds of things that have changed since then is lighter aircraft for training, the kind that tend to be much easier for a rookie pilot to handle than the big, heavy fast stuff. Seriously, the wings of these little training monoplanes that I trained in when I was 16 clip on with some little aluminium buckles. They're designed that way so if there is an accident, and the plane hits something hard, the wings are more likely to come off the plane entirely than actually snap, spilling the fuel they contain everywhere and burning the occupants to death.

Anyway, I digress. Learning to fly has always been easier, but just like learning anything, it gets easier all the time. Even when the technology isn't being updated, the more people that know how to do it, and the more people learning new things, the closer it becomes to general knowledge. The same rules apply to understanding basic aviation principles as they do to understanding any academic concepts, especially in science - the things we've learned in the past add to the knowledge and understanding we gain in the future. IE, we build on the backs of the giants that came before.

And the same applies to EVE. For example, with just a link to battleclinic, a new player can learn some fundamentals of fitting his ship whereas back in the days before battleclinic existed, you had to figure it out or learn from someone else directly. Someone else, mind you, that might not have a lot of theorycrafting experience themselves. Now, we get all these cookie-cutter fits and you rarely see someone flying a ship that isn't fit according to some kind of 'conventional wisdom'. The same applies for gimmick fits like the 10mn confessor from a while back - someone figures it out, then suddenly everyone else is doing the same thing, and that becomes the 'conventional wisdom', despite the fact that there are many other very effective ways to fit the same ship with a variety of targets in mind.

Anyway, I'm off-track again. Pilot training vs learning to play EVE - I'll be honest, it took me longer to learn EVE than it did to fly. But again, it comes down to how much material is available based on how long the thing being learned has existed. We've been flying for over a hundred years now, while EVE has existed for a decade. And if anyone told me, right now, that they knew all there was to know about EVE, I would call them a liar and tell them to go away, because I don't believe anyone that plays this game isn't still discovering something new about it at least 'from time to time'. Whereas with aviation, if someone told me they knew everything about it, I would believe them if their flight experience was sufficiently high enough. A test pilot, for example, the only pilots in the world who actually take legitimate risks these days considering the current generation of combat aircraft pretty much do all the combat for you, and the next generation will probably be entirely unmanned. You don't become a test pilot, though, without a HUGE vault of aviation experience behind you, including and not limited to commercial, private, military, and rotary, and you won't get the job if you've never crashed a plane in your life either, because you need to know how to take bumps and survive them. cont...

I don't know, I thought you set the skillqueue and then log off to train efficiently. (Er, after you buy implants)

Except that Indah, you equated depth in the game with difficulty and implied that Eve is a more difficult game to learn now than it was previously, just because there's more stuff in it.

More stuff doesn't automatically equate to greater difficulty. It's just more of the same stuff in relation to Eve. Not more difficult to learn as a player. It just takes a bit longer to experience it all.

But that's nothing other than two differing opinions, though I still struggle to see how the difference in learning to fly between now and 100 years ago means that Eve is more difficult to learn now, just because there's more stuff to learn.

But this is really a small point that has taken us way off topic.

We should get back to discussing how individual opinions on Steam about Eve are somehow more valid than differing opinions, presumably because they are published on the internet; and how if someone has a differing opinion to a steam user, they are a basement dwelling neckbeard, or apologist.

That seems to be the topic at hand.

Like I said, just differing opinions and neither is more correct.

To use an analogy on the flip side, although I normally hate using them.

If I learn Algebra and then want to learn more Algebra. It isn't any harder to extend my knowledge, it just takes more time; because it's just more of the same stuff.

Same in Eve. It is just more of the same stuff. Not more difficult.

More =/= Greater difficulty.

From my perspective, when I started playing in 2004, then took 7 years off from 2006 and came back in 2013, I found the game had a lot more depth, but was a lot easier to learn. There are more safety systems in place then there were at the start - warning dialogs when jumping out of highsec and the module safety system for example. Then there are the third-party sites for missions, etc. that make the game easy to churn though.

You have a different view, which is fine. It's all off topic anyway.

Is it learning to fly a plane then?

It seems the general idea of a metaphor is only supposed to work one way.

Ok then. That highlights well why I so hate using them. People can interpret whatever you write how they want, even literally in a metaphor, rather than metaphorically.

The fact that I used algebra wasn't important. It could have been gardening for all it mattered. The idea would have been the same.

All stupid from this point on.

Have a good Christmas Indah.

Edit: One small point in relation to new players are those easier to kill because they are unaware of changes. There's a recent Adrestia lossmail that would argue this isn't the case. Old players unaware of changes (or who haven't adjusted to a change) are just as susceptible and in some cases moreso. Not many new players are in a position to lose an Adrestia due to an addition to a mechanic.

This feels like special needs kids argueing with Einstein about how the universe works.

Then people wonder why EVE has low player retention.