Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Sorry the Russian roulette analogy is horrible. That is something where we have a well defined sample space and we understand the rules of the game. If we don't spin after each trigger pull we know the probability (of the bad state) has to go up. However, as I have shown if you are hoping back in forth in a reasonably juicy looking target (e.g. and industrial that is insured and carrying no cargo--i.e. looks juicy but really isn't) the probability of AFK (the good state) goes up. In other words, the two are actually quite different.

So I'm saying, I don't see the problem as the problem can be overcome.

That you refuse to even try to overcome it...is your problem.

It is absolutely a good analogy.

We should have a good understanding of the rules, but we don't. The rules can be manipulated any number of ways, and although we generally agree how the game should be played it does not matter if someone decides to start enforcing arbitrary changes for their own benefit.

Cloaks represent exactly that sort of arbitrary change. They violate one of the most foundational concepts of the game so as to allow one party to dominate the other parties activities without any chance at retribution.

In your example scenario let's say I test. The guy isn't afk, he sees me log in, and leave the system. Why would he follow? People travel all the time. A few minutes later he sees me return. Using dscan he makes a correct guess at my gate, warps to it at 100km. He sees me jump out again, and is now suspicious. I return, and jump out again. He still has not followed me and knows what I am up to. This continues until I am satisfied because I am apparently an idiot.

Using your logic I have now wasted anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour playing games with myself, and I head on out to do whatever I came for in the first place. Note at no point has the camper been in even the tiniest bit of danger himself. I settle into my ratting, am scrambled by half a dozen frigates that I begin to clear off when he begins his attack. Maybe he lights a cyno, maybe he just neuts my tank out, whatever. At this point I am pretty much done as if he wasn't prepared in whatever way to engage, he would not have, because there was never a way to break his initiative and bring the fight to him.

I might still have wasted as much or more time scanning him down and eliminated false positives, and he could still have engaged or not as he was prepared to do... But at the moment there is only one side at risk in this confrontation.

That is a problem. Nonconsent needs to exist for everyone.

And of course, his problem with cloaks is that they exist at all.

Which is of course why his proposals would basically cripple their being functional at all.

They exist to change the game, dumbshit!

You are wasting time. 4/4 is over. Done. Finished. Kanetz. Kaputt. Finito. Slutt. The fat lady sang.

All we can hope for now is that it is removed in a manner that impacts on moon-goo collection security.

Then the entitled-vet tears will really start to flow.

I do keep ratting.

It's remarkable but it seems no-one wants to drop on ishtars fleeted with a command ship in the same anom. Who knew....

"Forcing action" is impossible anyway. I'm docked, make me do something. Or I'm logged off. Or in a pos. MAKE me do something....go on, or concede the utter strawman you're throwing together.

Moreover, explain what I can MAKE you do when I'm not there, or even when I am cloaked. Absolutely nothing, I can MAKE you do nothing. Your behaviour drives you, nothing more.

Well I concede apparently we're "making" you cry to CCP to make the safest activity in the game, bar none, safer.

/Sigh.... Structures are not modules. Modules are not structures.

You want to accuse people of using strawmen, don't include the places specifically designed to provide safety in your argument.

I am not an idiot and I am not suicidal. I don't assume a hostile in system is afk. That hostile in system requires a defensive response. The effects of that defensive response reduce profits below those in high sec--- clearly a negative effect for operating in Null Sec. Inflicting negative effects from complete safety is unbalanced. Every ship not in a structure designed to make it safe is supposed to be at risk. A cloaked ship not humping something it should not is immune to being interacted with. This is not balanced.

I am aware you cant force action on safe people. That's a problem when the person is not inside a structure designed to make them safe.

You keep claiming it reduces profits yet seem unable to grasp that more ships per pocket = higher kill rate than solo.

In fact, where drones hulls are concerned, the reduced travel time between packs because they can be split actually INCREASES the tick value. Best part? More anoms at a faster clear rate = more escalations.

Of course, you'd know that, if you lived outside of highsec.

Furthermore, I'd like a citation that places only and not modules are designed to give safety. Dev post or it's just spouted nonsense by you. I mean, what the hell else is the point of a prototype cloak if NOT to provide safety?

And remember, you've still not addressed how lowsec manages this without collapsing in on itself.

Brokks
Yet, this thread is about afk cloaky camping.

Itemizing things that are less obscenely safe simply because they are not 4/4 is just a list of things you want devs to look at eventually in addition to fixing 4/4.

No... It's just that the one option that is supposed to be a part of every aspect of EVE is missing in this case.

Moving a system is just abandoning the space. Thus cloaker wins automagically because he cannot be opposed.

I have seen it done in low sec. It's just not as common because fewer people attempt to control that space.

You are the one suggesting that cloaks need to be 100% safe because otherwise Cap ships are at risk. Somehow ships that are supposed to be supported by fleets can be solo all day, but cheaper ships need whole fleets to support them.

It's not about ratting. It's about hunting cloaked ships.

Super simple concept there. If it's in space then it should be huntable.